World Leaders Survivor Redux - Organisation Thread (user search)
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  World Leaders Survivor Redux - Organisation Thread (search mode)
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Author Topic: World Leaders Survivor Redux - Organisation Thread  (Read 113524 times)
Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« on: May 24, 2009, 03:37:30 PM »

Another embarassing round for the forum. Sigh.
What's so embarrassing about eliminating Harper and Douglas?

I'm bewildered that I even have to argue about this. CANADA? The only way one can argue that Canada is not one of the best countries in the world is if one is a radical right-winger. I will just post one example: Bayar of Mongolia. Do you seriously, really, really consider him a better leader than Harper? I find that hard to believe of anyone.

Well, it's not thanks to Harper that Canada is one of the best countries in the world, it's like that since long before him.
Basically anyone can be elected prime minister in Canada and not  the country up Tongue

I have more respect for leaders who take into their hands an utter sh**t country and manage to get at least a decent administration out of it. Cristina Kirchner for instance might not be the greatest leader ever but she was very influential in her husband's administration when we recovered from the 2001 fiasco. And despite her flaws i still think we are better off now than in most of the past 30 years at least. And so far in tangible terms we haven't been hit that hard by the financial crisis.
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Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 03:56:47 PM »

Another embarassing round for the forum. Sigh.
What's so embarrassing about eliminating Harper and Douglas?

I'm bewildered that I even have to argue about this. CANADA? The only way one can argue that Canada is not one of the best countries in the world is if one is a radical right-winger. I will just post one example: Bayar of Mongolia. Do you seriously, really, really consider him a better leader than Harper? I find that hard to believe of anyone.

Well, it's not thanks to Harper that Canada is one of the best countries in the world, it's like that since long before him.
Basically anyone can be elected prime minister in Canada and not  the country up Tongue

I have more respect for leaders who take into their hands an utter sh**t country and manage to get at least a decent administration out of it. Cristina Kirchner for instance might not be the greatest leader ever but she was very influential in her husband's administration when we recovered from the 2001 fiasco. And despite her flaws i still think we are better off now than in most of the past 30 years at least. And so far in tangible terms we haven't been hit that hard by the financial crisis.

...because capitalism in Argentina collapsed 8 years ago Smiley

(I loved my two+ months in Argentina, btw, and I do understand it isn't a third world nation. I'm also a femenist. But...CFdeK is basically just an empty head)

Not Really Tongue
Of course we are better than in 2001 (When we were governed by someone who wasn't even in Kirchner's party by the way), even in late 2002 we were a bit better than in 2001. And when i say we are better off than usual doesn't mean it can't all go to sh**t one moment or another lol, but i tend to cut the president some slack.

Glad you enjoyed your stay here Smiley, but you are wrong, we are a third world country regrettably Tongue
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Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 07:14:11 PM »

Edu/GMantis: I understand that perspective and I share it to an extent. However. Harper hasn't damaged his country very much, has he? I would say Bayar seems to have damaged Mongolia quite a bit. And many other leaders haven't done great things for their countries either. Also, I don't think you can run that argument all the way. One could say that Kim Jong-Il hasn't made North Korea that much worse since he took over, for instance. It is also very hard to judge to what extent various events were caused by the leaders or not.

Bottom line is that while I share that idea as regards say economic performance quite a bit, I don't share it when it comes to things like democracy or human rights. The leader of a country that has freedom of speech and free and fair elections should not be voted off before the leader of a country where these things are not true. I consider your standard so relativist as to be morally bankrupt if it makes it ok to treat your citizens certain ways. You won't convince me that Harper has done things to Canadians comparable to some of the things perpetrated by some of those other leaders. 

I don't think everyone is taking the game entirely seriously. I admit that I'm not doing extensive research on all the world leaders and then making my choice accordingly to who is the worst overall. I really have my favorites from the start and normally i try to eliminate some of the worst scumbags on the list, but when i see people ganging up on someone like Harper, Berlusconi, Uribe or Sarkozy who can be a credible opposition to the leaders i like then i try to vote them off. This is a survivor game after all. It doesn't necessarily reflect my views of best and worst world leaders. For instance, i believe that Uribe is better than Chavez, but i tried to vote him off and then defend Chavez.

I replied to you before in response to the Canada issue, i think that the current status of a country that has been considered one of the best in the world for decades doesn't mean that the current leader who has been in power only a couple of years is equally great like the country. Of course Harper isn't murdering half of the people in Canada or taking absolute control over the media and the political process, but as i said before, his country has been stable for decades now and it has a history of freedom and democracy. And i do have more respect for a leader of a country that despite a crap economy and a history of instability and military dictatorships has maintained democracy and human rights despite not being very successful economically or politically. I also don't take dictatorships or countries where flagrant human right abuses are common into account, so North Korea might not have gotten worse in the past decades but the guy is still a brutal dictator. 

This is just my opinion, i repeat that it's not a representation of how I'm voting in the survivor threads, when we get down to the final 20 or 30 leaders (who should all be presidents/prime ministers of completely free and democratic countries) then I'll probably start playing more seriously. But as you said, it's pretty hard to judge every positive or negative effect a leader might have in the country and it's even harder to compare them when each and every one of them rule a different country with different cultures, different economies, different people, etc.
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Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 03:24:26 PM »

Wasn't he the world's longest-serving head of state besides monarchies after Castro stepped down? Who's the current record holder?

Yes, he was.

Muammar al-Gaddafi is the current one, he got to power in 1969
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Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 03:59:32 AM »

Finally!
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Edu
Ufokart
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,869
Argentina


« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 10:45:08 PM »

Interesting winner
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