I'm scared

[Ronnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJkXl4wG2eU&feature=channel_page

I truly hope that the original plan of a hybrid healthcare plan won't be amended into a pure single payer system.  How is this any different from socialism?  discuss

[Lief 🗽]

Here's hoping, right? The health insurance industry needs to be put out of business.

[Rowan]

Here's hoping, right? The health insurance industry needs to be put out of business.

And those thousands of jobs too? Those people should lose their jobs?

[Verily]

"Scared"? Seriously? You need to get some perspective, Ronnie.

[Ronnie]

What do you mean, Verily?

[Mint]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJkXl4wG2eU&feature=channel_page

I truly hope that the original plan of a hybrid healthcare plan won't be amended into a pure single payer system.  How is this any different from socialism?  discuss

I think she's just playing to the crowd or engaging in wishful thinking (for her, single payer would be horrendous IMO too). I seriously doubt Washington interests would ever let that get off the ground, especially when they destroyed a comparatively more tame plan 16 years ago and already have derailed some of Obama's other proposals (see: subprime refinancing). Plus if you read the fine print Obama's plan is basically just more subsidies for the insurance industry.

[Verily]

What do you mean, Verily?

This is not something to be scared of, even if you dislike it politically. In fact, saying that you are scared of it only makes you look absurd and wild-eyed.

[Ronnie]

What do you mean, Verily?

This is not something to be scared of, even if you dislike it politically. In fact, saying that you are scared of it only makes you look absurd and wild-eyed.

Well, I do not believe that it is good for the country, and will hand much more power to the government.  That is, in my opinion, something to be scared of.

[afleitch]

What do you mean, Verily?

This is not something to be scared of, even if you dislike it politically. In fact, saying that you are scared of it only makes you look absurd and wild-eyed.

Well, I do not believe that it is good for the country, and will hand much more power to the government.  That is, in my opinion, something to be scared of.

To which 60 million Britons would be unable to contain their laughter.

[Mint]

What do you mean, Verily?

This is not something to be scared of, even if you dislike it politically. In fact, saying that you are scared of it only makes you look absurd and wild-eyed.

Well, I do not believe that it is good for the country, and will hand much more power to the government.  That is, in my opinion, something to be scared of.

To which 60 million Britons would be unable to contain their laughter.

To be fair, your mindset is more egalitarian than ours. I doubt Americans would be willing to put up with the rationing and waiting that many of you do just so everyone got healthcare. If we ever do get Universal Healthcare I suspect it will be more along the lines of Switzerland or Japan than Canada or the UK.

[War on Want]

I hope single-payer healthcare happens, sadly Americans are too stupid and selfish to allow it to happen. I will settle for a hybrid universal healthcare plan though. That would certainly be better than our current system for millions of Americans.

[Rowan]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

[Joe Biden 2020]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

You have to take the evil with the good, sometimes.  I'm in favor of a hybrid-uhc, because I want EVERY American to have health care and I want to end the practice of precondition rejection that the health and life insurance companies love.  Keep in mind, no plan will ever be perfect, because we live in an imperfect world, but I agree with EMD that the hybrid would be better than what we've currently got.

[War on Want]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

[Lunar]

I'm scared

[Rowan]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Single payer has some flaws, but I would happily take that system over our current one. The benefits far outweigh the costs of giving up our current system. (Do you want some people have to wait a little longer because hospitals triage, or do you want nearly 50 million people without any coverage all and millions billed into bankruptcy?)

This is my problem with this country, others are far ahead of us on things like health care. Universal Health Care is a fact of life, mostly through single payer, and no one even considers it as an issue before. We, however, still have to debate between helping everyone or helping everyone with money.

[War on Want]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

So that is your only problem with single-payer healthcare? It makes perfect sense to me, in order for the system to work you have to make some sacrifices.

[Rowan]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

So that is your only problem with single-payer healthcare? It makes perfect sense to me, in order for the system to work you have to make some sacrifices.

Not my only problem. I also don't know how we are going to pay for it when we are already so far in debt as a country.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

It's better to wait for it then never get it because you can't afford it.

[War on Want]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

So that is your only problem with single-payer healthcare? It makes perfect sense to me, in order for the system to work you have to make some sacrifices.

Not my only problem. I also don't know how we are going to pay for it when we are already so far in debt as a country.

Higher taxes, cutting military spending, preventive care etc. It will be a big chunk of change but we will find a way to fund it.

[Lunar]

... a better liberal argument is to argue that it'll be cheaper overall and make our businesses and workers more competitive and give people more money to engage the economy with...

[Rowan]

Rationing and waiting for months to go to the doctor sounds good to you?

Rationing and waiting for some operations makes perfect sense to me. I am not going to explain why though read this and you will figure out why I support it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)
I can't be expected to defend my opinion with you knowing next to nothing about single-payer healthcare.

I guess this is where we differ.

"In the NHS, which aims to give a broad coverage of care to all without charging, health care is rationed on the grounds of clinical need, meaning that emergency cases (e.g. heart attacks) get instant access where those with less urgent needs (e.g. cataract surgery) are given lower priority and so wait longer."

I don't feel that the person who needs cataract surgery should have to wait to get surgery. You think they should.

So that is your only problem with single-payer healthcare? It makes perfect sense to me, in order for the system to work you have to make some sacrifices.

Not my only problem. I also don't know how we are going to pay for it when we are already so far in debt as a country.

Higher taxes, cutting military spending,

Is that really possible now? We're in the middle of two wars and will be for the next 2 years at the minimum. And also higher taxes? Sorry, but that won't fly with the American people.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The US already spends more per capita on health care than Canada or the UK. Streamlining it and abolishing stuff like Medicare as it's no longer needed will save money.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well "sorry," but tough choices and bold leadership are needed for the challenges that we're facing right now, and we can't go on pretending that constant tax cuts on an ever-withering tax structure (that is historically quite low) can sustain ourselves, and I'm pretty sure a "defense" budget that rivals the rest of the planet combined can be trimmed, and soldiers in Germany and Japan as well as other places can be brought home and the bases terminated.

This is a critical issue that relates quite obviously to the public health and the health of businesses, which are crippled under our enormous healthcare costs, and individuals that go into bankruptcy every day because of medical bills. I'm sorry that I don't think it's okay that over 45 million people go without insurance and those with insurance have their coverage whittled away at by greedy businessmen.