French mock presidential election, 2007 - 2nd round

[Hash]

I'm afraid she is Antonio, at least by Israeli standards, she is quite left wing and much to the left of most of her party members and Labour members.
Left and right in Israel got little to do with economic views (I'd say she's a bit right of centre, for Israel, not the US), mainly represents the views towards the Israeli-Arab conflict and Livny basically agrees to major redrawls though I agree that she has done little to prove it as foreign minister.

I must admit that Israel is today one of the most far-rhightist countries in the world. I personally consider many Labour members as decisely rightists. They just forgot what was the Mapai and left-wing Zionism.

Mapai wasn't left-wing at all, not when it came to foreign relations (at least until the days of the younger generation of Rabin and Peres since the mid 1970s).
They were quite socialist but the politics in Israel has moved to the right in the economic sphere whilst moving to the left in the foreign relations policies, the Likud today is probably more left wing than Mapai in the 1960s and before.
At the same time Labour today is more capitalistic than Herut in the 1950s (though Herut was never a big believer of fiscal conservatism, the Likud got it's fiscal conservatism ideas from the Liberals after the merge in the 1960s that formed Gahal).

Israel isn't very right wing, both socially and fiscally the US and some other English speaking nations are much to Israel's right.

The Mapai government didn't have a will to colonize nor even to durably occupe palestinian territories. It never did the war voluntarily, but was only attacked by Arab countries. It actively worked for peace and accepted any compromise with his ennemies ( with the Egypt notably ). There was the time when Israel didn't think that the only way to have safety is to attack those who threaten it. I can easily understand it : after being attacked for decades, they have probably had enogh. However, I can't agree with this return of a brutal and arrogant "Bush-type" nationalism.
About economical issues, it happened in Israel what happened in almost every occidental states : In the 1980' years, the rising of what frenchs call "néolibéralisme", this blind and dogmatic ideology that caused this economical crisis.
About social values, I don't know a lot about them in Israel, but I don't see it as a particularly reactionnary country.

I didn't say that Mapai started wars but it was never too keen about giving the Arabs lands such as Judea and Samaria during the days of Meir and Dayan.
Actually, even Rabin was against an Israeli retreat from eastern Jerusalem and the Golan heights in the 1990s, not to mention the 1970s when he was much more moderate.
The only land that Israel was always willing to retreat from is the Sinai and eventually it was Begin of the Likud that signed the treaty with Egypt, not a Mapai politician.
Today, however, Labour members are certain to vote in favour of a retreat in Judea and Samaria to establish yet another Arab state and will most likely vote in favour of a retreat in the Golan heights so Labour is to the left of Mapai though I agree that Labour isn't as leftist as it was 10 years ago when Barak was PM, he matured and today he's by far the most moderate Labour MK and to the right of Livny.

I agree about with your statement regarding the 1980s but Israel is still to the left of the US economically and I'd say also socially, social issues are mostly none-issues in Israel.

I agree about Golan heights and Jerusalem. There is no reason to give these so important regions ( strategically for Golan, symbolically for Jerusalem ) to Arab countries. However, they can't be ruled only by Israel. The only solution is an international control.
About economics, thanks. About social issues, good news.

Anyways... we should not forget that it's supposed to be a vote thread !

I tend to disagree, I'm not a big believer of the UN and international interference in the region (that indeed played so well in Iraq, Lebanon etc.) but OK.
And an interesting vote thread it is, what are you gonna do next, Germany? the UK? or was it a one time try, this foreign elections idea?

No, I project to continue with french elections : 2007 legislatives, 2008 municipals, 2009 europeans... I hope somebody else will do the same for other countries.

How will you do the municipals? Who you'd vote for would depend a lot on where you lived.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm afraid she is Antonio, at least by Israeli standards, she is quite left wing and much to the left of most of her party members and Labour members.
Left and right in Israel got little to do with economic views (I'd say she's a bit right of centre, for Israel, not the US), mainly represents the views towards the Israeli-Arab conflict and Livny basically agrees to major redrawls though I agree that she has done little to prove it as foreign minister.

I must admit that Israel is today one of the most far-rhightist countries in the world. I personally consider many Labour members as decisely rightists. They just forgot what was the Mapai and left-wing Zionism.

Mapai wasn't left-wing at all, not when it came to foreign relations (at least until the days of the younger generation of Rabin and Peres since the mid 1970s).
They were quite socialist but the politics in Israel has moved to the right in the economic sphere whilst moving to the left in the foreign relations policies, the Likud today is probably more left wing than Mapai in the 1960s and before.
At the same time Labour today is more capitalistic than Herut in the 1950s (though Herut was never a big believer of fiscal conservatism, the Likud got it's fiscal conservatism ideas from the Liberals after the merge in the 1960s that formed Gahal).

Israel isn't very right wing, both socially and fiscally the US and some other English speaking nations are much to Israel's right.

The Mapai government didn't have a will to colonize nor even to durably occupe palestinian territories. It never did the war voluntarily, but was only attacked by Arab countries. It actively worked for peace and accepted any compromise with his ennemies ( with the Egypt notably ). There was the time when Israel didn't think that the only way to have safety is to attack those who threaten it. I can easily understand it : after being attacked for decades, they have probably had enogh. However, I can't agree with this return of a brutal and arrogant "Bush-type" nationalism.
About economical issues, it happened in Israel what happened in almost every occidental states : In the 1980' years, the rising of what frenchs call "néolibéralisme", this blind and dogmatic ideology that caused this economical crisis.
About social values, I don't know a lot about them in Israel, but I don't see it as a particularly reactionnary country.

I didn't say that Mapai started wars but it was never too keen about giving the Arabs lands such as Judea and Samaria during the days of Meir and Dayan.
Actually, even Rabin was against an Israeli retreat from eastern Jerusalem and the Golan heights in the 1990s, not to mention the 1970s when he was much more moderate.
The only land that Israel was always willing to retreat from is the Sinai and eventually it was Begin of the Likud that signed the treaty with Egypt, not a Mapai politician.
Today, however, Labour members are certain to vote in favour of a retreat in Judea and Samaria to establish yet another Arab state and will most likely vote in favour of a retreat in the Golan heights so Labour is to the left of Mapai though I agree that Labour isn't as leftist as it was 10 years ago when Barak was PM, he matured and today he's by far the most moderate Labour MK and to the right of Livny.

I agree about with your statement regarding the 1980s but Israel is still to the left of the US economically and I'd say also socially, social issues are mostly none-issues in Israel.

I agree about Golan heights and Jerusalem. There is no reason to give these so important regions ( strategically for Golan, symbolically for Jerusalem ) to Arab countries. However, they can't be ruled only by Israel. The only solution is an international control.
About economics, thanks. About social issues, good news.

Anyways... we should not forget that it's supposed to be a vote thread !

I tend to disagree, I'm not a big believer of the UN and international interference in the region (that indeed played so well in Iraq, Lebanon etc.) but OK.
And an interesting vote thread it is, what are you gonna do next, Germany? the UK? or was it a one time try, this foreign elections idea?

No, I project to continue with french elections : 2007 legislatives, 2008 municipals, 2009 europeans... I hope somebody else will do the same for other countries.

How will you do the municipals? Who you'd vote for would depend a lot on where you lived.

Everything is yet hypothetical but I project to divide it in 10 categories ( the 8 biggest cities + one "big cities" category + one "average cities" caterogies - no small cities because there uses not to be political affiliations for them ). Anybody can chose the category where he votes.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I voted in Castres, Tarn, for municipals. I very doubt you projected to that one...

[Antonio the Sixth]

I voted in Castres, Tarn, for municipals. I very doubt you projected to that one...

I can vote in the category "average cities" if you want.

First poll

Sample : 7

Bayrou : 86%
Blank : 14%



Bayrou landslinde predicted... though we can not exclude another surprise ! Keep voting, please.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Important information : Opening of the General french mock elections thread here

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I voted in Castres, Tarn, for municipals. I very doubt you projected to that one...

I can vote in the category "average cities" if you want.

It enough well reflected the presidential in a way, a divided left, a strong independant center, who finally turned kinda independant NC, a kind of local Bayrou, he's now deputy, Phillipe Folliot, and in the end, it is the UMP (a kind of local Sarkozy, Pascal Bugis) who won.

But, no, there might be more important stuffs, it's an only 40,000 inhabitants city, and not a lot of stakes.

Do what you planed to do.

[Hash]

I voted in Castres, Tarn, for municipals. I very doubt you projected to that one...

I can vote in the category "average cities" if you want.

It enough well reflected the presidential in a way, a divided left, a strong independant center, who finally turned kinda independant NC, a kind of local Bayrou, he's now deputy, Phillipe Folliot, and in the end, it is the UMP (a kind of local Sarkozy, Pascal Bugis) who won.

But, no, there might be more important stuffs, it's an only 40,000 inhabitants city, and not a lot of stakes.

Do what you planed to do.

Bugis is the guy who Folliot defeated in 2002. Folliot was actually a Villierist/Pasquaist (he was one of the two MPs elected with the RPF etiquette, the other was in the Hauts-de-Seine). He won based on rural votes, and Bugis won Castres proper.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Bugis is the guy who Folliot defeated in 2002.

For the deputation yes.

Folliot was actually a Villierist/Pasquaist (he was one of the two MPs elected with the RPF etiquette, the other was in the Hauts-de-Seine). He won based on rural votes, and Bugis won Castres proper.

Yes, yes, most of people know that I think here, at least I already heard people speaking about that, but actually he really turned in a local Bayrou, even if officially NC, I followed his campaign and i still receive a newsletter from his deputation. The fact he was elected on rural votes doesn't surprise me at all, he likes giving an image of "terroir" (for translation euh...could be "country" maybe), a kind like Bayrou does, and they are are the same on most issues and in the personality too.

Damn, you've all the results in mind or?

[Hash]

Bugis is the guy who Folliot defeated in 2002.

For the deputation yes.

Bugis was Jacques Limouzy's dauphin, if you want. Limouzy was the strongman of the Gaullist right for a long time in the Tarn/Castres.

Folliot was actually a Villierist/Pasquaist (he was one of the two MPs elected with the RPF etiquette, the other was in the Hauts-de-Seine). He won based on rural votes, and Bugis won Castres proper.

Yes, yes, most of people know that I think here, at least I already heard people speaking about that, but actually he really turned in a local Bayrou, even if officially NC, I followed his campaign and i still receive a newsletter from his deputation. The fact he was elected on rural votes doesn't surprise me at all, he likes giving an image of "terroir" (for translation euh...could be "country" maybe), a kind like Bayrou does, and they are are the same on most issues and in the personality too.

Oh, yeah, certainly. IIRC his voting record isn't always pro-government as most of the NC usually is.

Damn, you've all the results in mind or?

Yes

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Bugis is the guy who Folliot defeated in 2002.

For the deputation yes.

Bugis was Jacques Limouzy's dauphin, if you want. Limouzy was the strongman of the Gaullist right for a long time in the Tarn/Castres.

Yes, yes, I'm not from this region but I live here for 10 years now, and Limouzy is the famous political guy here, I haven't followed 2002 deputation. Limouzy, even if very old, is still in the game by managing the "communauté d'agglomération" (a French system of collectivity of municipalities) of Castres-Mazamet, but Bugis is an actual small tiger, really a kind of local Sarkozy, maybe in more sincere.

Damn, you've all the results in mind or?

Yes

Damn, if that's not a compulsive sickness (the one never know! pay attention! ), then Congrats!

[Antonio the Sixth]

I voted in Castres, Tarn, for municipals. I very doubt you projected to that one...

I can vote in the category "average cities" if you want.

It enough well reflected the presidential in a way, a divided left, a strong independant center, who finally turned kinda independant NC, a kind of local Bayrou, he's now deputy, Phillipe Folliot, and in the end, it is the UMP (a kind of local Sarkozy, Pascal Bugis) who won.

But, no, there might be more important stuffs, it's an only 40,000 inhabitants city, and not a lot of stakes.

Do what you planed to do.

I think any city of more than 10 000 can be considered as average.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Last week before closure of the poll. Hurry-up to vote, please !

[Zarn]

I missed the 1st Round

I choose revolution!

Let's make a Sixth Republic!

[Antonio the Sixth]

I missed the 1st Round

I choose revolution!

Let's make a Sixth Republic!

Your vote could have changed many things since there was a tie between Bayrou and Sarkozy.

Anyways, I also am in favor of a 6th republic, and Bayrou certainly was the most reformer of every candidate on this issue.

[Hash]

Blank vote! Blank vote!

[Zarn]

I missed the 1st Round

I choose revolution!

Let's make a Sixth Republic!

Your vote could have changed many things since there was a tie between Bayrou and Sarkozy.

Anyways, I also am in favor of a 6th republic, and Bayrou certainly was the most reformer of every candidate on this issue.

I wanted to overthrow the 5th one to avoid this election.

[TeePee4Prez]

I don't know how left wing Segolene Royal is but I do know for however old she is she is smoking hot and could pass for her 30s so I voted for her. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

Second poll

Sample : 9

Bayrou : 67%
Royal : 11%
Blank : 22%

[Antonio the Sixth]

François Bayrou is officially elected President of French Republic.

Official results

Turnout : 17

Blank votes : 3 ( 18% )
Expressed ballots : 14 ( 82% )

François Bayrou : 10 ( 71% )
Ségolène Royal : 4 ( 29% )


Don't miss the Inauguration Day friday, and then the mock legislative elections !