Stop the Ignorance!

[Gustaf]

Just a side note:

Something, I'm fed up to see here and there all the time:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Let's fix it:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Yes, please, let's stop to live in a permanent episode of Charmed, once for all, Halliwell sisters don't exist, we're in real life, and in this life, it's not because you're victim that you're an innocent - wonderful, nice, so good - person which has nothing to reproach to itself...

That said, I agree with that point about civilians, and about killing in general and if a war context can cancel the notion of crime in case a warrior (from a regular army or not) is involved, killing has to be blamed in any circumstances, even war, or revolution, or whatever.

I'm not sure what you mean. But civilians can be more or less innocent. A person who throws stones at the police or an Israeli settler is less innocent than a random person who happened to be in the wrong mall when a sucide bomber entered it.

I meant that the notion of civilian is enough, if you take part in a fight, no matter you're from a regular army or not, no matter it's just spontaneous or not, you pass from the status of civilian to the status of warrior, that is that simple for me.

So, this notion of innocence hasn't to be added, plus adding this notion goes in that general trend of making sacred everyone which is a victim of something: "once you're a victim you're a wonderful nice person only aimed to make the good around you, you're always right and have nothing to reproach to you, why?, because you're a victim". A kind of emotional feeling with which I'm fed up and which is for example very common in a lot of US shows.

When you're a victim, you need some care, not to be made sacred.

Well, when you personally used "innocence" you may just focused on their innocence in a precise context of fight. In my mind the notion of civilian/warrior is enough.

Ok, well, I disagree. I don't consider civilian and innocent to be synonymous terms at all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight, at least not to a level which makes one deserving of death.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight, at least not to a level which makes one deserving of death.

In my mind no one deserves death, I'm against all decision to give the death to someone, others might disagree with it but that's how I see things.

Then, someone who takes part to a fight makes of himself a warrior, no matter his means, something which cancels the notion of crime if he is killed by an opposite warrior during a fighting action. And ultimately in my mind it only cancels it if killing wasn't the purpose but just something that happened to reach an objective, that said a war context prevents to be so precise, and until now we can't make an investigation for each case. It just cancels this notion it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want because someone fights you. One more time, I condemn any decision of killing someone, all the time, in any circumstances.

Civilians has never to be touched, by no way, but if a civilian fights, it becomes a warrior.

[Gustaf]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight, at least not to a level which makes one deserving of death.

I didn't realize my sentence could be interpreted that way, though I can see that now. I meant "a person who throws rocks at the police" on the one hand and "an Israeli settler" on the other.

[Silent Hunter]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight.

Would you like me to throw rocks at you, so you can see what it's like? I don't think so.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

[dead0man]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight, at least not to a level which makes one deserving of death.

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

No, throwing rocks shouldn't lead to a death sentence....but if a person is so funking stupid that they throw rocks at people armed with guns, Darwin tells me that person shouldn't be breeding.  Especially if the person throwing the rocks knows the person holding the gun hates them.  I can't think of a dumber thing to do than throw rocks at them.  Maybe running directly at them with things that look like bombs attached to you....that would be dumber I guess.  Pulling things out of your pockets that look like guns, that would be dumber too.

[Gustaf]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Lol. Given your idolization of violence I don't really consider your opinions on cold-heartedness very valid.

Anyway, I never said that it made someone a legitimate target. I was making a distinction.

Do you think it is cold-hearted to kill Israeli settlers then? How about their kids?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Lol. Given your idolization of violence I don't really consider your opinions on cold-heartedness very valid.

Anyway, I never said that it made someone a legitimate target. I was making a distinction.

Do you think it is cold-hearted to kill Israeli settlers then? How about their kids?

Of course it is. Just as if some CARLHAYDEN type were to do so to illegal immigrants.

[Silent Hunter]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Unpleasant? It can kill you.

[GMantis]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Unpleasant? It can kill you.

In an armored troop carrier? Not likely.
Shooting at demonstrators, however, is a rather effective way to kill.

[Silent Hunter]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Unpleasant? It can kill you.

In an armored troop carrier? Not likely.

If you're sticking your head out of the turret, it can.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Cite some incidents of Israeli soldiers killed by rocks.

[GMantis]

Having rocks thrown at you is unpleasant obviously, but saying that doing so makes one some sort of combatant and a legitimate target for lethal force sounds pretty cold-hearted to me unless you think it's legitimate to open fire on schoolchildren doing it on a playground.

Unpleasant? It can kill you.

In an armored troop carrier? Not likely.

If you're sticking your head out of the turret, it can.

The helmets are not for decoration.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Cite some incidents of Israeli soldiers killed by rocks.

No matter it kills somebody or not. If you attack a soldier (that I rank under the general term of warrior) you become yourself a warrior and a legitimate target for the other warriors. One more time, I personally never said it legitimates death, but when you enter in a fight you have to assume the possible consequences. If you're targeted while you didn't choose to enter in the fight, you remain a civilian and you have by no way to be targeted. Concerning children the point is rather irrelevant but such a rule needs a space for them ultimately yes, so, about them, I would say that one can be considered as a warrior when he actually represents a danger for some soldiers, but in that case, we wouldn't speak about children anyways, rather of teenagers.

Concerning the stones, that might be not as much efficient as Israeli weapons, but have you seen what Palestinian use to launch their stones?? I wouldn't want to receive a stone with it...

I think all of this are just "ultimate" principles, and that anyways the Israeli army should have strong instructions to give a correct answer adapted to every situation and should firmly make apply these instructions, and should firmly punish those who don't respect it. So much things which I hope they happen in reality, but it seems it's not always the case. And, one more time, to me, death has to be avoided in any situation, and has never to be an objective.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

i saw the president of mali. he as nice.

[Hash]

i saw the president of mali. he as nice.

Please leave the intelligent threads alone. No need to troll there.

thnx

[Silent Hunter]

Cite some incidents of Israeli soldiers killed by rocks.

I wasn't actually talking about soldiers. You said settlers, I pointed out that rocks hurt when they hit you.

Many police officers in my country have been injured by rocks and masonry being thrown at them.