Is this a hate crime? (Philip Buble's Story)

[Gabu]

So, in your opinion, what's the dividing line between a crime borne out of hate that is not a hate crime and one than is?

Serious question; I'm not trying to trick you or anything.

It depends on whether or not the state legislature or Congress have declared "discrimination on the basis of X to be illegal.

Okay, that's the technical legal definition, but I'm looking more for your opinion on what a hate crime is.  Suppose you make a comprehensive list of every crime stemming from hatred that is a hate crime.  What would (and wouldn't) be on it, and why?

[Cubby]

So, in your opinion, what's the dividing line between a crime borne out of hate that is not a hate crime and one than is?

Serious question; I'm not trying to trick you or anything.

It depends on whether or not the state legislature or Congress have declared "discrimination on the basis of X to be illegal.

Okay, that's the technical legal definition, but I'm looking more for your opinion on what a hate crime is.  Suppose you make a comprehensive list of every crime stemming from hatred that is a hate crime.  What would (and wouldn't) be on it, and why?

Gender
Sexual Orientation
Political Belief
National Origin

Thats all I can think of right now

[dazzleman]

As one of the only people around here who actually supports hate crime legislation, I suppose I ought to respond.

My biggest problem is him saying zoophilia is his "sexual orientation", that term doesn't apply to "zoophiles" so he shouldn't use it. The creep wants to hide under the semi-respectability of a protected class of citizens.

What he did disgusts me. (Iwww! I sound like (a) religious) There's no way it can be tolerated. But what the guy's father did is vigilante violence, which is never acceptable either. Since zoophilia isn't covered by Maine's hate crime laws (I can't remember if the election in November covered this) I have to say that it is not a hate crime, but both people should still get in trouble for what they did.

Here's another relevant question: if it was not technically legally a hate crime, should it have been one?

Of course not. I hope people don't use the incident as an example to say we don't need hate crime laws. This is a freak incident, not something that requires legislation.

Why shouldn't this be a hate crime?  Wasn't it a crime borne out of hate directed at this person because of a certain quality or preference of the person?

Every crime is a hate crime, in some way.  The intent and effect of the crime, not the reason for committing it, is what the law should deal with.

[Bono]

Yo moma is a hate crime.

[David S]

I eat meat.

Because I eat meat, I feel I have no moral ability to criticize those who hunt. I don't hunt myself, but just because I pay companies to kill and package my dead animals for me, it doesn't mean that I'm not contributing to the death of animals for my enjoyment (eating enjoyment.

If I can't even criticize people for hunting and killing animals, I hardly see how I can criticize people for having sex with animals. The animals may not enjoy it, but I'm sure that the animals I eat have a thurouhgly miserable life in the lead-up to them being killed for my enjoyment.

I get a taste-based pleasure from the misery and slaughter of animals. If someone gets sexual pleasure from something less than that, on what grounds can I judge them?

Cute argument.  I was unaware that there is an ethical equivalency between eating a chicken bone and boning a chicken.

Good one!

I'm all for fixing good old Philip Buble up ... with a demented Pit Bull!

[Gabu]

Gender
Sexual Orientation
Political Belief
National Origin

Thats all I can think of right now

What makes hate directed at someone's gender, sexual orientation, political belief, or national origin more important or severe than hate directed at someone for some other quality?

[Cubby]

Gender
Sexual Orientation
Political Belief
National Origin

Thats all I can think of right now

What makes hate directed at someone's gender, sexual orientation, political belief, or national origin more important or severe than hate directed at someone for some other quality?

Ummm........Societal consensus?

[dazzleman]

Gender
Sexual Orientation
Political Belief
National Origin

Thats all I can think of right now

What makes hate directed at someone's gender, sexual orientation, political belief, or national origin more important or severe than hate directed at someone for some other quality?

Ummm........Societal consensus?

You may be assuming a consensus that doesn't fully exist.  Gabu makes a very good point, IMO.

[Democratic Hawk]

I find it more repulsive what the son did the the dog than what the father did to the son

Dave

[??????????]

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/854/ME/US/1

lol

[Gabu]

Gender
Sexual Orientation
Political Belief
National Origin

Thats all I can think of right now

What makes hate directed at someone's gender, sexual orientation, political belief, or national origin more important or severe than hate directed at someone for some other quality?

Ummm........Societal consensus?

Again, we're talking about your own personal opinions and how you came to them, not what the rest of the world happens to think.

I'm assuming that you didn't form your opinion on hate crimes purely to be in accordance with societal consensus.

[Gustaf]

We've had this discussion before. I think it perfectly valid to include motive as a factor in deciding on a sentence. Let's take an example:

An armed psychopath assaults a woman, mother of three children, and brutally rapes her. Afterwards, they struggle for his gun and one of them gets the upper hand and kills the other with several shots. Does it not matter which one did the murder here? Do you seriously think that their guilt would be exactly the same?

Ont he issue, it's kind of a tossup for me. There aren't a lot of zoophiles and since it was his dad, it's more personal.

[dazzleman]

We've had this discussion before. I think it perfectly valid to include motive as a factor in deciding on a sentence. Let's take an example:

An armed psychopath assaults a woman, mother of three children, and brutally rapes her. Afterwards, they struggle for his gun and one of them gets the upper hand and kills the other with several shots. Does it not matter which one did the murder here? Do you seriously think that their guilt would be exactly the same?

Ont he issue, it's kind of a tossup for me. There aren't a lot of zoophiles and since it was his dad, it's more personal.

It's perfectly reasonable to look at motive in the case you discussed.  But in a case of deliberate and unjustified murder or assault, is ethnic hatred necessarily a worse motive than robbery?  The case you gave is potentially self-defense, which is not the same as distinguishing between 2 different motives, both of which are evil.

[Ebowed]

Philip Buble is a zoophile from Piscataquis County, Maine

The only county in all of New England to vote for McCain.

[Edu]

Philip Buble is a zoophile from Piscataquis County, Maine

The only county in all of New England to vote for McCain.

Lol, hilarious bump

[minionofmidas]

Philip Buble is a zoophile from Piscataquis County, Maine

The only county in all of New England to vote for McCain.

All of McCain's New England voters sleep with their dogs, prude.