It's getting uglier

[justfollowingtheelections]

More about the crimes of American soldiers in Iraq:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

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And some of you still think they hate us because of our "freedoms".

[Rowan]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

[Magic 8-Ball]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

So, raping prisoners is apropos to human dignity?

[Keystone Phil]

And some of you still think they hate us because of our "freedoms".

Yeah, I'm glad some of them didn't hate us (civilians and soldiers) before we invaded Iraq.

[Keystone Phil]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

So, raping prisoners is apropos to human dignity?

Who defended this? He's simply responding to the ridiculous comment that this type of stuff is really why they hate us (as if they haven't raped their own women).

[justfollowingtheelections]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

I have this sick individual on my ignore list because all he ever does is insult others, but I made the terrible mistake of clicking to read what he said and I'm incredibly angry now.
We are talking about really serious crimes.  We are talking about thugs with no respect for their fellow human beings.  Mistreating women and children is the worst possible crime one can commit and the fact that there are people out there who fail to see this makes me want to puke.  You and others like you who fail to see what this means are worse than animals.


If anyone has the stomach to see some pictures that have been released you can click here:
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm

I can't post any pictures because they're so horrible, but no one who tries to rationalize this deserves to be called a human being.  End of rant.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

So, raping prisoners is apropos to human dignity?

Who defended this? He's simply responding to the ridiculous comment that this type of stuff is really why they hate us (as if they haven't raped their own women).

Stop.  Just stop.  The fact that you use that as justification for these crimes makes you lose the little credibility you still had.  Do you even realize what you just said?
The fact remains that things like these were unfortunately happening all the time and calling what I said ridiculous is just sad.  A nation that cannot admit its mistakes does not deserve to be called civilized.

[Keystone Phil]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

So, raping prisoners is apropos to human dignity?

Who defended this? He's simply responding to the ridiculous comment that this type of stuff is really why they hate us (as if they haven't raped their own women).

Stop.  Just stop.  The fact that you use that as justification for these crimes makes you lose the little credibility you still had.  Do you even realize what you just said?

LOL

What? Are you...you can't...you can't be serious. Right?

That wasn't justifying this! You people need to learn logic. I said that your statement about this being why they hate us is absurd. This isn't why they really hate us. They hated us before this. I said that they rape their own women because that disproves your ridiculous myth that rape is why they hate us!

That was in no way, shape or form any justification.

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What you said is ridiculous. You said that this (not our freedoms) is why they hate us. Sure, this ads to it but we weren't raping their women in 2001. We weren't raping their women in 2000. We weren't raping their women in 1993.

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

[Magic 8-Ball]

Yay, the blame America first crowd is back!

So, raping prisoners is apropos to human dignity?

Who defended this? He's simply responding to the ridiculous comment that this type of stuff is really why they hate us (as if they haven't raped their own women).

I never said he defended it.  While the comment that blagohair ended with is somewhat misplaced (though not entirely), my first reaction is to be outraged when our soldiers betray human dignity in our name, not what some guy posts on a board.  Rowan decided to take umbrage at what is basically immaterial commentary.

[Saxwsylvania]

A sorry incident, but surely blagohair does not believe this reflects the behavior of a majority of American soldiers?  This is the sort of propoganda that our enemies love.

[justfollowingtheelections]

A sorry incident, but a handful of deviant soldiers does not a U.S. Army make.

No, but it should trouble us.

[justfollowingtheelections]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

To address everything else you said, you have a tendency to misinterpret something you don't agree with.  Did I ever say that crimes such as these are the only reason they hate us?  No.

We could have a long long discussion on why they hate us and the role we have played in the Middle East throughout the decades and that is the reason they hate us, but when our thugs behave like this, it certainly doesn't help.  Can we agree on that at least?

And I'm still incredibly angry...

[Saxwsylvania]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

To address everything else you said, you have a tendency to misinterpret something you don't agree with.  Did I ever say that crimes such as these are the only reason they hate us?  No.

We could have a long long discussion on why they hate us and the role we have played in the Middle East throughout the decades and that is the reason they hate us, but when our thugs behave like this, it certainly doesn't help.  Can we agree on that at least?

It certainly doesn't help; but what do you propose we do about it?  Your first post implied that we deserve to be hated by terrorists.  And for what?  Because we objectify women?

[War on Want]

Both sides in here are being idiotic. That is all I have to say.

[justfollowingtheelections]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

To address everything else you said, you have a tendency to misinterpret something you don't agree with.  Did I ever say that crimes such as these are the only reason they hate us?  No.

We could have a long long discussion on why they hate us and the role we have played in the Middle East throughout the decades and that is the reason they hate us, but when our thugs behave like this, it certainly doesn't help.  Can we agree on that at least?

It certainly doesn't help; but what do you propose we do about it?  Your first post implied that we deserve to be hated by terrorists.  And for what?  Because we objectify women?

There are a lot of things we can do as a society.  First we have to ask ourselves, why are these thugs in the Army?  Isn't the Army supposed to be a force that defends our nation?  How could we let such criminals get paid by us to do these terrible things?  Shouldn't we have better criteria when selecting soldiers instead of just accepting everyone who couldn't find a job.

Second, we should remind them what their job is in the army.  Their job isn't to get pussy.  Read the story of this soldier that raped a 14 year old girl and murdered her family.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/22/kentucky.iraq.murder/index.html
He was heard before the attack telling other soldiers that he was going there to get pussy.  What's really unfortunate is that this is not an isolated incident.  It happened VERY OFTEN in Iraq.

Third, we should be more tolerant of other cultures.  When there's so much racism in the media towards certain ethnic or religious groups, do you really expect someone without much education or knowledge of other cultures to treat them like human beings when he goes there?

And while we don't deserve to be hated for what some thugs did, can you really blame them if they generalize and feel that we're all terrible people?  Isn't that after all what we did after 9/11 (not me, but a large percentage of the population)?

There's so much we can do, but the first thing we need to do is admit (and by that I mean our government) that we did terrible things there, that this was an unjust war and to apologize.  My $0.02.

[War on Want]

I fail to see how blagohair ever said that terrorists hate us because of this but rather the more common citizens in Islamic nations dislike us because of this. I could be wrong though.

[Lunar]

Amazed how some people in this thread aren't addressing this sort of shocking news, if it's true.  Remember when Obama didn't show the pictures with the argument that they're 'Not particularly sensational?'

[justfollowingtheelections]

Amazed how some people in this thread aren't addressing this sort of shocking news, if it's true.  Remember when Obama didn't show the pictures with the argument that they're 'Not particularly sensational?'

I know.  That's what bothers me too.  While I can understand the argument that it will put the troops in danger at a particular difficult time considering what is going on in Pakistan, we will at some point have to acknowledge what happened.  And we have to do it before it's too late and the damage is irreparable.

[Keystone Phil]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

Ok, don't admit you're wrong.

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Uh, huh. Like you did here.

 

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Uh...you clearly hinted that our freedoms were not why they hated us; the rapes are the reason why.

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Sure

[dead0man]

And some of you still think they hate us because of our "freedoms".

How do these people that hate us feel about stoning rape victims?

[justfollowingtheelections]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

Ok, don't admit you're wrong.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Uh, huh. Like you did here.

 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Uh...you clearly hinted that our freedoms were not why they hated us; the rapes are the reason why.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure

I won't dignify you with a real answer because I have noticed that you play this game all the time and frankly I'm not really interested in a discussion that leads nowhere.

[justfollowingtheelections]

And some of you still think they hate us because of our "freedoms".

How do these people that hate us feel about stoning rape victims?

Are you trying to say something or are you trying to pick a fight, because like I said I'm not interested.

[dead0man]

Why do you think they hate us, and who is "they"?

[justfollowingtheelections]

Why do you think they hate us, and who is "they"?

I don't know who is they. 

Being that it's 1am where I am and I have to finish a review, I'll give you some of the reasons why they hate us (I've already sent it to you by PM but I'm posting it here as well for others to read, not that I'm saying anything new):

The main reason they hate us is because we have invaded their country (Bush might have said that we went there to liberate them, but it's rather obvious they don't feel that way).  Before that they hated us because we were bombing them throughout the 90s.  Wouldn't you feel the same way if a foreign country did those things to us regardless of the reasons why they were doing them?  It's a natural reaction and you can't blame them for feeling that way.

As for why Muslims in the Middle East hate us, it's because we have been intervening in the region for so long.  By we I mean, not just the US, but Britain before us as well.  Unfortunately that's what happens when a region is rich in natural resources, but you can't expect them to be pleased with what we have been doing.

And I hope no one tells me it's because we're trying to get rid of dictators or because of how they treat women.  Worse things happen in nearby countries and we never do anything there because they're allies of ours.

[Keystone Phil]

No one here ever, ever, ever, ever defended this. No one here ever, ever, ever said we shouldn't admit this was a mistake. Of course it's a mistake. Of course it is horrific. However, your excuse that this is why they really hate us is flat out wrong.

Lets leave it at that.

Ok, don't admit you're wrong.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Uh, huh. Like you did here.

 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Uh...you clearly hinted that our freedoms were not why they hated us; the rapes are the reason why.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure

I won't dignify you with a real answer because I have noticed that you play this game all the time and frankly I'm not really interested in a discussion that leads nowhere.

"Play this game"

So, basically, you now understand that you totally misunderstood my original statement but refuse to concede the point here.