Will Moldova hit Transnistria any time soon?

[Jacobtm]

*sigh*

Once again, please look at a map. Unlike Georgia, Russia does not border Moldova.

I don't understand why you think that's important. Russia already is projecting its power into Moldovan territory by keeping Transnistria quasi independent. They have planes, hellicopters, tanks, military envoys. Just because you can't throw a stone into Russia from Transnistria, doesn't mean Russia can't put its military there in hours.

And it's already been pointed out, there is already Russian military there.

[GMantis]

*sigh*

Once again, please look at a map. Unlike Georgia, Russia does not border Moldova.

I don't understand why you think that's important. Russia already is projecting its power into Moldovan territory by keeping Transnistria quasi independent. They have planes, hellicopters, tanks, military envoys. Just because you can't throw a stone into Russia from Transnistria, doesn't mean Russia can't put its military there in hours.

And it's already been pointed out, there is already Russian military there.

How will these Russian reinforcements get there? By violating Ukrainian airspace or by violating Romanian airspace?

[Jacobtm]

*sigh*

Once again, please look at a map. Unlike Georgia, Russia does not border Moldova.

I don't understand why you think that's important. Russia already is projecting its power into Moldovan territory by keeping Transnistria quasi independent. They have planes, hellicopters, tanks, military envoys. Just because you can't throw a stone into Russia from Transnistria, doesn't mean Russia can't put its military there in hours.

And it's already been pointed out, there is already Russian military there.

How will these Russian reinforcements get there? By violating Ukrainian airspace or by violating Romanian airspace?

If Russia declares that its nationals are being attacked by Moldova in any effort to "hit" Transnistria, it would have no problem "violating Ukrainian airspace" to send reinforcements.

[12th Doctor]

Huh... to be honest, i wasn't aware that this is still a going concern.

[SPC]

I certainly hope that Moldova doesn't interfere with Transnistria. And, given it's communist government, I doubt it will.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

*sigh*

Once again, please look at a map. Unlike Georgia, Russia does not border Moldova.

I don't understand why you think that's important. Russia already is projecting its power into Moldovan territory by keeping Transnistria quasi independent. They have planes, hellicopters, tanks, military envoys. Just because you can't throw a stone into Russia from Transnistria, doesn't mean Russia can't put its military there in hours.

And it's already been pointed out, there is already Russian military there.

How will these Russian reinforcements get there? By violating Ukrainian airspace or by violating Romanian airspace?

If Russia declares that its nationals are being attacked by Moldova in any effort to "hit" Transnistria, it would have no problem "violating Ukrainian airspace" to send reinforcements.

Yes, and after the strong support that Georgia received from West, would Ukrain take the risk to strike some planes coming from Russia...?

Huh... to be honest, i wasn't aware that this is still a going concern.

The same.

[dead0man]

Oh come on, you know Georgia had it coming.  They deserved to have their military destroyed because they tried to maintain security inside their national borders.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Oh come on, you know Georgia had it coming.  They deserved to have their military destroyed because they tried to maintain security inside their national borders.

We won't remake the debate on Georgia. IMO they have just been irresponsible and they have shown that West don't move that easily, even in case of invasion. I just wanted to point out that now everybody knows that: "you're on war with Russia, don't count too much on West to help you...". Thus, Ukrain, Molodova or else, may won't strike Russia that easy, even if Russia do something wrong toward them.

[Stranger in a strange land]

I certainly hope that Moldova doesn't interfere with Transnistria. And, given it's communist government, I doubt it will.

lol wut!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Hungary

[Hash]

I certainly hope that Moldova doesn't interfere with Transnistria. And, given it's communist government, I doubt it will.

Transnistria doesn't have a communist government. It has a mafia government.

[GMantis]

I certainly hope that Moldova doesn't interfere with Transnistria. And, given it's communist government, I doubt it will.

lol wut!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Hungary

He thought wronlgy that because the current government is communist, it's pro-Russian. In fact, it's very anti-Russian and it was Voronin who sabotaged the Kozak plan for reunification.

[Jacobtm]

Yes, and after the strong support that Georgia received from West, would Ukrain take the risk to strike some planes coming from Russia...?

Some people seem to think so. I'm sure NATO wants to get all its members into a war with nuclear Russia, knowing that it could involve quite a few other nuclear-armed countries opposing NATO.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Yes, and after the strong support that Georgia received from West, would Ukrain take the risk to strike some planes coming from Russia...?

Some people seem to think so. I'm sure NATO wants to get all its members into a war with nuclear Russia, knowing that it could involve quite a few other nuclear-armed countries opposing NATO.

I wasn't blaming West for what they have done or not, I was just recording it. I always thought the most irresponsible in Georgia has been Saakashvili.

[Stranger in a strange land]

I certainly hope that Moldova doesn't interfere with Transnistria. And, given it's communist government, I doubt it will.

lol wut!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_border_conflict

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Hungary

He thought wronlgy that because the current government is communist, it's pro-Russian. In fact, it's very anti-Russian and it was Voronin who sabotaged the Kozak plan for reunification.

I wasn't sure whether he meant that or if he was trying to imply that Communist governments  don't go to war against each other. In any event, the events I cite show that Communist doesn't necessarily mean pro-Russian/Soviet, not even during the Cold War.

[GMantis]

*sigh*

Once again, please look at a map. Unlike Georgia, Russia does not border Moldova.

I don't understand why you think that's important. Russia already is projecting its power into Moldovan territory by keeping Transnistria quasi independent. They have planes, hellicopters, tanks, military envoys. Just because you can't throw a stone into Russia from Transnistria, doesn't mean Russia can't put its military there in hours.

And it's already been pointed out, there is already Russian military there.

How will these Russian reinforcements get there? By violating Ukrainian airspace or by violating Romanian airspace?

If Russia declares that its nationals are being attacked by Moldova in any effort to "hit" Transnistria, it would have no problem "violating Ukrainian airspace" to send reinforcements.

I think you are right. After all, unlike Georgia, Moldova could not pretend to act in response of Russian aggression.

[dead0man]

Unwanted Russian military in your country isn't an act of aggression?

[GMantis]

Unwanted Russian military in your country isn't an act of aggression?

They're there as part of an internationally agreed ceasefire. As Moldova bears part of the blame for the war in Transnistria, their wishes are not the only one that matter.
And considering the way Moldova obtained these territories, regarding them as part of Moldova is rather doubtfull. After all, if Moldova regards the Ribentrop-Molotov pact and its consequences as illegitimate, then why haven't they given up a territory which is theirs only because it was given to them by the Soviets.

[dead0man]

Really, you're just going to blame Moldova in this and not mention Russia once?  How shocking coming from you.  Anyway, link

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Now, are you arguing for Transnistria independence?  A return to Moscow rule?  Against Moldova?

[GMantis]

Really, you're just going to blame Moldova in this and not mention Russia once?  How shocking coming from you. 

I said that Moldova was partly to blame for starting the war. That implied that the other part of the blame was Transnistria's.

Anyway, link

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On the other hand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Control_Commission

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The question is more about the heavy equipment stockpiled in Transnistria.

Now, are you arguing for Transnistria independence?  A return to Moscow rule?  Against Moldova?

A good solution would be to return the territory to the Ukraine, which it was a part of until 1940.

[dead0man]

I'd support that as well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well Ukranians are only the third largest group in Moldova, while Moldovans are a plurality, so there's not much more of an argument for that. Plus the primary reason for the rebellion, fear of reunion with Romania, is not happening (though it would be better for everyone involved--except Romania.)

Now if back in 1992 the region was annexed to Ukraine instead off putting it under a mob-ran dictatorship, it would be a better outcome no doubt than what happened and not entirely unacceptable. But backing up such a regime in such a region is rather indefensible, considering there's plenty of other parallel situations where that hasn't occured. How would anyone react to Austrian-backed guerillas in South Tyrol, or Turkish-backed guerillas in Bulgaria? (You did get a comparable situation with Albanian guerillas in Serbia I suppose that many supported, but those aren't the same countries supporting it here. Both sides just need some consistency.)

[GMantis]

Well Ukranians are only the third largest group in Moldova, while Moldovans are a plurality, so there's not much more of an argument for that. Plus the primary reason for the rebellion, fear of reunion with Romania, is not happening (though it would be better for everyone involved--except Romania.)

Now if back in 1992 the region was annexed to Ukraine instead off putting it under a mob-ran dictatorship, it would be a better outcome no doubt than what happened and not entirely unacceptable. But backing up such a regime in such a region is rather indefensible, considering there's plenty of other parallel situations where that hasn't occured. How would anyone react to Austrian-backed guerillas in South Tyrol, or Turkish-backed guerillas in Bulgaria? (You did get a comparable situation with Albanian guerillas in Serbia I suppose that many supported, but those aren't the same countries supporting it here. Both sides just need some consistency.)

The idea to give Transnistria to the Ukraine was in answer to the Moldovan claim that the Ribentrop-Molotov pact and its consequences were illegitimate. Therefore a way to rectify the pact would be to return Transnistria to the Ukraine. The mixed population of Russians and mainly Russian speaking Ukrainians matches the population distribution in the neighbouring Odessa Oblast.
Of course,  Ukraine can't afford to encourage secession and redrawing borders, which is why nothing like this will happen in the close future. By the same argument as above, the Budjak region and the eastern Chernivtsi Oblast
should be returned to Moldova, and by a similar argument the Crimea should be returned to Russia.