Affirmative Action Bill (Failed)

[Ebowed]

I don't disagree with education reform, at all, but it would be naive to expect such reforms to address what affirmative action is supposed to.  You are less likely to get hired in many places with a resume sporting an obviously "black" name.  And it's not really fair to assume that beneficiaries of affirmative action are inherently less qualified - I mean, the people in charge of these things aren't going to choose someone who is obviously completely incorrect for the job or college.  The standards that apply to anyone still apply to people who may or may not be selected in affirmative action programs.

[Purple State]

I don't disagree with education reform, at all, but it would be naive to expect such reforms to address what affirmative action is supposed to.  You are less likely to get hired in many places with a resume sporting an obviously "black" name.  And it's not really fair to assume that beneficiaries of affirmative action are inherently less qualified - I mean, the people in charge of these things aren't going to choose someone who is obviously completely incorrect for the job or college.  The standards that apply to anyone still apply to people who may or may not be selected in affirmative action programs.

But those standards often apply less so. I have witnessed it first hand.

The only way to fix this problem in an equitable and efficient way is education reform and financial aid. We cannot resort to reverse discrimination because of the disadvantages that our ancestors imposed on others. The answer to one wrong is not another.

[MasterJedi]

With 7 Ayes, 0 Nays and 0 Abstentions this amendment has passed.

[Ebowed]

The only way to fix this problem in an equitable and efficient way is education reform and financial aid. We cannot resort to reverse discrimination because of the disadvantages that our ancestors imposed on others. The answer to one wrong is not another.

Except that
a.) the "disadvantages" (pleasant understatement) that our ancestors imposed on others continue to result in disadvantages for those people to this day; and
b.) I don't see how affirmative action is a 'wrong.'  To think this way you must feel entitled to that job or place in a school that a black person is instead getting.  You are not entitled to either of these things.

The only conceivable benefit, really, of getting rid of affirmative action in the real world is that it would no longer exist as a scapegoat for people who think they are entitled to something because they must inherently be more qualified than the colored guy who wants the same thing.

[Purple State]

The only way to fix this problem in an equitable and efficient way is education reform and financial aid. We cannot resort to reverse discrimination because of the disadvantages that our ancestors imposed on others. The answer to one wrong is not another.

Except that
a.) the "disadvantages" (pleasant understatement) that our ancestors imposed on others continue to result in disadvantages for those people to this day; and
b.) I don't see how affirmative action is a 'wrong.'  To think this way you must feel entitled to that job or place in a school that a black person is instead getting.  You are not entitled to either of these things.

The only conceivable benefit, really, of getting rid of affirmative action in the real world is that it would no longer exist as a scapegoat for people who think they are entitled to something because they must inherently be more qualified than the colored guy who wants the same thing.

And why do the horrors of slavery and discrimination continue to echo today? Because we have failed to lift the ancestors of those events up, instead spoon feeding them with affirmative action. We need to improve education and welfare, build their social institutions and ensure that they are empowered to achieve greater results. And I do believe that oftentimes those who are more qualified for a position are overlooked because of affirmative action. As such, it is wrong.

[Ebowed]

And why do the horrors of slavery and discrimination continue to echo today? Because we have failed to lift the ancestors of those events up, instead spoon feeding them with affirmative action.

You can't be serious.

It really says something about your mindset if you are willing to basically blame the current disparity between blacks and whites on the use of affirmative action.

[Purple State]

And why do the horrors of slavery and discrimination continue to echo today? Because we have failed to lift the ancestors of those events up, instead spoon feeding them with affirmative action.

You can't be serious.

It really says something about your mindset if you are willing to basically blame the current disparity between blacks and whites on the use of affirmative action.

Don't twist my words. I blame the lack of progress partly on affirmative action. Obviously it can only be measured post civil rights movement legislation; however, the slow progression for blacks after that is due to our meaningless efforts to place unqualified people in positions they do not belong, as if just being in the position will raise their ability. Education will raise their ability, while affirmative action will continue the stagnation.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up a final vote on the bill below. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Aye

[HappyWarrior]

AYE

[Franzl]

Aye

[Bacon King]

nay! the atlasian government should not be in the business of forcing companies away from diversity in the workplace.

[Purple State]

nay! the atlasian government should not be in the business of forcing companies away from diversity in the workplace.

Aye

We aren't. We are forcing them towards equality and merit in the workplace.

[Ebowed]

Here's a form of 'affirmative action.'  Public school hiring three P.E. teachers.  The three most qualified applicants are male, but the school wants to hire at least one female as the P.E. teachers also handle sex education.

Such a decision would be prohibited by this bill in its original and amended form.

^^^ This is still the case, fellows.

however, the slow progression for blacks after that is due to our meaningless efforts to place unqualified people in positions they do not belong

In which case, I wasn't really twisting your words, was I?  And by the way, that is still a completely ridiculous thing to believe, regardless of whether you support affirmative action or not.

[Ebowed]

The strange tale of affirmative action in Atlasia:
Affirmative action is banned - August 2005
My attempt to repeal said bill fails - November 2007
Al succeeds in repealing the bill - December 2008
MasterJedi repeals Al's repeal - May 2009 (note MJ falsely attributing the bill to me, and also note that the Senate's previous concerns over this bill seem to have disappeared...)

I'm still not entirely certain as to why this legislation is necessary, though it would seem to contradict the law in place prohibiting affirmative action on the status of socioeconomic background.  Or perhaps more accurately, such preferencing would be illegal in federal employment, while this bill would extend the ban on race/sex/sexual orientation AA (not that the third one even exists, heh) to all other employment and education, including presumably the hiring practices of regional governments.

All I suggest is that you people think just a little bit harder about what you're about to pass?

[afleitch]

Aye.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Aye Nay, government should not be legislating private businesses' hiring practices.

[MasterJedi]

This bill has enough votes to pass. Senators now have 24 hours to change their votes.

[RI]

Aye, ftr.

[Sbane]

Aye

[MasterJedi]

With 6 Ayes, 2 Nays and 0 Abstentions this bill has passed. I hereby Present it to the President for his signature.

[bgwah]

Veto of course

[Franzl]

I request an override.

[MasterJedi]

Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain on overriding the President's Veto.

Aye

[RI]

Aye.

[Purple State]

Aye