high expectations for kerry.
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2024, 05:01:46 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  high expectations for kerry.
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: high expectations for kerry.  (Read 776 times)
WalterMitty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,572


Political Matrix
E: 1.68, S: -2.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 07, 2004, 11:47:59 AM »

after a strong performance by kerry in the first debate, the public expects another strong performance in debate number 2.

i believe the kerry campaign, and the people in the media, did john kerry a disservice by over-hyping his debate performance.

he has no where to go but down.  whereas bush cant do much worse.
Logged
Shira
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,858


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2004, 11:51:17 AM »

after a strong performance by kerry in the first debate, the public expects another strong performance in debate number 2.

i believe the kerry campaign, and the people in the media, did john kerry a disservice by over-hyping his debate performance.

he has no where to go but down.  whereas bush cant do much worse.

Everyone talks about performance.
What about the issues?
Logged
AuH2O
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,239


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2004, 11:53:17 AM »

This is definitely an issue. On the one hand, Kerry did succeed in making some progress- temporarily at least- against Bush in the polls.

But, as Dick Morris said a while back, Rove is playing chess while Cahill and crew are playing checkers. Kerry is a good debater, insofar as he sounds like he knows what he's talking about even though he doesn't. But winning the first debate just means Kerry's candidacy is now depending on winning the second debate as well.

So, while Bush could have "ended" the race in the first debate, the actual stakes have not changed. A Bush win Friday essentially sinks Kerry by showing the first debate was a fluke. A tie kills Kerry's momentum at the very least and probably increases Bush's lead slightly. A marginal win is less than expected and thus would have little effect.

Kerry has just as much pressure to win this time. Maybe more.
Logged
MODU
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,023
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2004, 11:55:01 AM »

after a strong performance by kerry in the first debate, the public expects another strong performance in debate number 2.

i believe the kerry campaign, and the people in the media, did john kerry a disservice by over-hyping his debate performance.

he has no where to go but down.  whereas bush cant do much worse.

Everyone talks about performance.
What about the issues?

Now that strikes me as funny.  Earlier this week, people were saying even though Cheney won on substance, it was style that the viewers were after, which is why they said Edwards won.  *laughs*

Can someone please make up their mind around here!!!

Substance trumps style any day of the week.
Logged
WalterMitty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,572


Political Matrix
E: 1.68, S: -2.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2004, 11:58:55 AM »

im not a big fan of any of these debates.  but i especially dislike the town hall format.

if we are going to have these debates, let's have someone like tim russert moderate and ask some serious questions.  all youll get out of the town hall format is a 19 year old asking aobut how the government is going to help her re-pay her college loans, and laid off 44 year old electrician wanting to know how the government is going to help him find a job.

too many/most people view government as a dispenser of goodies.  but that is another thread.
Logged
MODU
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,023
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2004, 12:06:33 PM »


I feel that debates are good, but they have to have more than 2 people in them.  In a two-party debate, you pretty much have the argument "I'm for the opposite of him" or "I will do the same, but better" responses.  In a 3 or more person debate, the candidates have to draw clear differences between themselves and the other candidates in order to draw attention to their platform and case. 

If anything, Badnarik should be in these debates since he's on the most state ballots compared to the rest of the third-party candidates.
Logged
Fmr. Gov. NickG
NickG
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,203


Political Matrix
E: -8.00, S: -3.49

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2004, 12:39:51 PM »


I'm not sure Kerry really matters that much in these last two debates.  I think he will be pretty consistant.  Bush has the burden on him to prove that he can do much better than he did last Thursday...people will be scrutinizing him much more than Kerry tomorrow.
Logged
Friar
Rookie
**
Posts: 129


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2004, 12:40:39 PM »

Yes, the public expect more from Kerry now but they also expect more from Bush, being a president for the last 4 years.

I expect Kerry to be as strong as he was and I expect Bush to be better than the first debate. I don't think Bush's performance can be worse Smiley
Logged
MODU
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,023
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2004, 12:43:03 PM »


Bush will probably be more relaxed this go around, after getting the first debate behind him.  Will that help?  Probably.  Will he win the debate?  We'll have to wait till it's over to find out.
Logged
J-Mann
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,189
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2004, 12:59:01 PM »


Everyone talks about performance.
What about the issues?

Exactly, but you may have contradicted yourself based on how the Kerry camp played up his victory.  If Kerry performs badly this time around, his supporters will likely default to this argument: "What about the issues?" 

When he performed well stylistically, his skill was played up.  Bush actually had a strong command of the issues, but just couldn't get his point across; therefore, he loses. 

Now if Kerry doesn't perform as well, they'll likely claim issues as more important, though style was touted as the "soup of the day" last Thursday.
Logged
Sam Spade
SamSpade
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,547


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2004, 01:54:51 PM »

My observations as we head into the second debate:

Where we are right now is in a period of a state of flux. 

The funny thing this whole situation reminds me of is the DWI incident back in 2000 (if not the whole 2000 race).  Though we didn't know it at the time, that event sent the race into a certain amount of strangeness where a rather comfortable 3-5 point Bush lead switched into a vote with the narrowest of margins.  Excellent GOTV by the Dems helped, but this demoralization of Rep voters showed up in a number of places (like Ohio and PA, where GOTV efforts were also terrible).

Before the first debate, Bush was clearly ahead 3-5 points, and with the addition of the demoralization of the Kerry voters, this margin probably extended to 5-7 points for all practical purposes. 

With the assumed disaster by Bush by both relative sides in the first debate, the race suddenly went into flux.  Very few minds were actually changed by the debate (my guess with the polling is probably about 1%), but the effect on the dynamics of the race was incontrovertible.  Bush supporters who had been energized and confident, slipped into dismay and demoralization, whereas Kerry supporters who were unenergized, suddenly became energized and confident.

Though the dynamics of the race changed little, the motivation factors made the race totally different.  You can see this by comparing the hardweighted polls to the non-weighted polls.  The hardweight polls still show a rough 2-3, 2-4% Bush lead; the non-weighted polls show an essentially tied race.  Cheney's performance Tuesday probably helped stabilize the race a little, keeping it at this number and maybe reenergized Bush people a little, but that effect is probably negligible compared to Friday.

Based on the factors I'm seeing, there are probably three possible outcomes to the second debate that make sense to me:

1. The positive Kerry outcome:  Kerry shines, Bush stumbles in the same way as the last debate looked to the TV audience.  Chances are what you will see after this is a tied race nationally in the hardweighted polls and a 3-5 point Kerry lead in the un-weighted polls.  The race will have fundamentally changed.

2. The neutral outcome:  Both candidates perform well and it appears to the audience as that.  Oddly enough, what you will see here is a re-energization of the Bush voters, but not a demoralization of the Kerry voters so that probably all the polls (weighted and unweighted) will resolve around the 2-4% Bush lead number.  The third debate assumes the most importance under this scenario.

3. The positive Bush outcome:  Bush comes back and trounces Kerry, a la Reagan in 1984, and the audience views it as this also.  Chances are after this outcome you would see the race return somewhat to where it was before the first debate, probably not exactly, but fairly close, with a re-energization of Bush voters and a demoralization of Kerry voters.

I'm sure no one will agree with me on any of this.  Smiley
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.044 seconds with 13 queries.