A few thoughts from your PO; AMENDMENTS AT VOTE

[Lief 🗽]

I oppose any attempts to force more boring, uncompetitive regional elections on people, but otherwise I agree with PS' basic points.

[Lief 🗽]

* Abolish regional Senate seats.
* Mandate that all powers not specifically devolved to the Regions (by appropriate legislation and/or constitutional fiat) are the responsibility of the national government.
* Have two month terms for the now all at-large seats.
* Allow for dual officeholding.
* Make the process of amendment easier.
* Allow more flexibility in the responsibilities and composition of the Cabinet.
* (Optional) Expand the size of the Senate and make it so Cabinet members most come from the Senate.

I like these ideas.

[Lief 🗽]

What about a 10-member nationally elected Senate and a 5-member Council of Governors?

[Lief 🗽]

It's kind of odd that members of the RPP want to force rather strict government setups on the regions. I'd oppose this, as I believe that (if we need to keep regions) they should be able to decide how they run themselves.

At the same time, I would oppose any reform that retains regional senate seats. They are abysmal failures and even in "active" regions aren't particularly fun or interesting or competitive.

[Lief 🗽]

Do you support regional Senate seats?

[Lief 🗽]

Do you support regional Senate seats?

Yes, I support the regions and regional elections. So I won't refuse to let you destroy that.

Why do you support inactive, uncompetitive, boring elections? Do you think that's healthy or interesting for the game?

[Lief 🗽]

What "massive" reform do I advocate now? Because if a CoG and all nationally-elected Senate seats is too "massive" for people, then we might as well shut down the ConCon right now.

[Lief 🗽]

I want to get rid of regional offices because they're pointless and hurt the game. None of the regional senate seat supporters have yet given a reason why they should stay, despite their strange argument that the regions are for some reason deserving of representation.

[Lief 🗽]

What "massive" reform do I advocate now? Because if a CoG and all nationally-elected Senate seats is too "massive" for people, then we might as well shut down the ConCon right now.

Agreed. Seriously the stuff being proposed, if one takes even a slight glance, will clearly help the game. Regional Senate seats are crap. Governors are crap. But by creating a separate chamber, a CoG, and removing regional senators, we can make newly competitive, activity-inducing positions for the game.

I'm supportive of a Council of Governors, but if we eliminate regional senate seats while adding the Governors to the legislature, aren't we basically just eliminating overall offices and giving a new name to regional Senators? I mean, it's essentially just shuffling things around a bit.

Edit: All the while reducing overall participation.

We're not eliminating overall offices. We'll still have 10 senators and 5 governors.

And the council of governors would function differently than an additional 5 regional senators. They would not be proposing legislation or anything, not to the degree that the Senate does, and instead function as a sort of upper house, signing off on legislation that has been passed by the Senate.

At the moment, both regional senators and governors have structural problems, as far as offices go. By combining the two (sort of), we give them more prestige and desirability, hopefully increasing competition and election activity for the offices.

[Lief 🗽]

I want to get rid of regional offices because they're pointless and hurt the game. None of the regional senate seat supporters have yet given a reason why they should stay, despite their strange argument that the regions are for some reason deserving of representation.

And you have yet said anything at all that indicates how they actually "hurt the game".

People need to realize that change for the sake of change isn't what's needed. Notice how the game worked fine when people were really active and now is working fine again? Yep, nothing much is needed except keeping people active so that the game functions, which is what it's doing now.

How are four out of five uncompetitive and boring regional elections every 2 months "fine"? How is the game "functioning" when 4 out of 5 elections, the foundation of our game, are practically uncontested?

I want to get rid of regional offices because they're pointless and hurt the game. None of the regional senate seat supporters have yet given a reason why they should stay, despite their strange argument that the regions are for some reason deserving of representation.

Lt. Gov and CJO are pointless. However, the regional offices give newer players, or those with less time on their hands, and ability to participate in the game and hold an office. Besides, I personally like the idea of regionalism in general, if only for the fact that it can make politics more interesting.

Yeah, I have no problem with regional legislatures. If you want to keep those, fine, whatever. I'm talking about regional Senate seats.

[Lief 🗽]

None of these reforms whether advocated by PS or by ILV or Lief or even myself is guarrenteed to create Activity. There is no subsitute for involvement and I find it strange that PS criticize my position using the very same line I used against him. I said very plainly that unless people are willing to be active and to get involved, you might as well take all of your damned reforms and put them where the sun don't shine. Regional Senators are innactive. So are National Senate seats and Presidential election. Expanding every seat or position to the National level is not going to solve the problem. You can't legislate a solution to this problem. All of these supposed solutions can easily end us up right back were we started.

But that's just not true at all...

And surely it's better to attempt to solve the problem than ignore it and hope it'll go away.

[Lief 🗽]

For me, a CoG and an at-large 10 seats Senate is an good compromise.

^^^^

[Lief 🗽]

For me, a CoG and an at-large 10 seats Senate is an good compromise.

^^^^

It may not cut Regional power, but it does cut regional influence, especially if the CoG can only vote and not propose legislation.

I could not care less about regional power or influence or whatever. Most of the regions are dead, and nothing we've done has been able to revitalize them. People talk about giving the regions more power; have you read the constitution? They already have plenty of power! They've always had! But no one cares, they're not active, they're dead. Even the Regional Protection Party, in control of the entire Southeast, has done nothing besides changing the name of the region. So if you want to grandstand about regional influence or whatever, be my guest, I don't care. I just want fun, competitive and interesting elections, something that regional senate elections are not, as been proven time after time after time.