The Atlasian Sentinel Amendment Referendum Tracker [Updated 7/3 9:23 PM East]

[Marokai Backbeat]

The Mideast is turning into a garbage region. Sorry guys.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Why are we addressing the shortage in people running for office by making it harder to run for office, again?

For the vast majority of people, it won't have any substantial negative impact. It mostly just protects critical offices from new and uninformed people who haven't participate, and it makes it so you have to put in slightly more of an effort to register to vote. There's no real harm here except to those who are new to Atlasia and recruited by those who wish to use them as pawns for their own political future.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And why can't the voters determine whether a candidate is qualified enough?

There are plenty of idiot voters too

In all seriousness, these are very plain and simple regulations on assuring quality of candidate and participation. Posting requirements to register to vote are only being increased modestly, and people running for Senate and Presi-freaking-dent should have actually participated to some degree. As I've said, this affects no one already registered to vote, and even if it did, the vast majority wouldn't be affected anyway. This bill is designed to ensure that we can't have ignorant newbie hordes running the show. That's all.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't see the point of this amendment. It is not like we are actually going to vote for a newb anyways. And if we do, he probably deserves to win. This amendment is grossly undemocratic, and I will not support it.

I wouldn't be so sure. You might not, the old guard might not, the idiot "loons" might not (though don't hold me to that) but there are plenty of newbies already here and it wouldn't surprise me if they managed to get through.

Also, I'd like to say once again, this doesn't mean you have to join Atlasia and wait 6 months before you can be president, it just means your account has to be 6 months old. All of these waiting periods are with the age of your account, not your age after joining Atlasia.

Fine if you want to whine about it being "undemocratic" but that's just not true. We have age limits for running for Senate and President in the real world, this is no different. There are many other offices individuals can run for or attempt to be appointed to. As for voter registration, it just mandates people have to participate a little longer, rather than join one day, spam 25 posts, and join the same day.

This game continues to prove itself to be full of jokes.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nope

Class clown ilikeverin strikes again!

[Marokai Backbeat]

Look, another Nay vote from the garbage Mideast region from a newbie! Whodathunkit?

[Marokai Backbeat]

These are modest requirements which affect no one already registered. Anyone making a big deal about these minor enhancements of voter and officeholding regulations is a joke. (Most, if not all, of the opposition is coming from newbies, people who benefit from having the newbies as their slaves, and the crazy class clowns. You're in great company.)

[Marokai Backbeat]

So, I am a joke?

You're welcome for my vote. It won't be happening again. I don't like when people can't be civil with their disagreements. You're acting as if my opposition is a personal attack.

You're not as bad as the others who are opposing such a basic amendment. But still, I'm disappointed you're against obvious and much-needed amendments.

And I don't really care if you vote for me again or not. I've contemplated leaving this 'game' lately anyway. The hell I had to go through to get elected, and the stupidity I have to deal with on a daily basis, gives me more headaches than my mom's chronic migraine condition.

[Marokai Backbeat]

So, I am a joke?

You're welcome for my vote. It won't be happening again. I don't like when people can't be civil with their disagreements. You're acting as if my opposition is a personal attack.

You're not as bad as the others who are opposing such a basic amendment. But still, I'm disappointed you're against obvious and much-needed amendments.

And I don't really care if you vote for me again or not. I've contemplated leaving this 'game' lately anyway. The hell I had to go through to get elected, and the stupidity I have to deal with on a daily basis, gives me more headaches than my mom's chronic migraine condition.

You act like you're entitled to win and get your way. Thing is you're not. Once you realize that maybe you'll calm down somewhat, k?

I'm not acting like I'm "entitled" to get something, I'm pissed off by a great number of things. Tired of the fact that your moderator ilk do s**t when people ask you to, and really, with such lax rules on this site, why even have mods. I'm tired of sockpuppets finding their way into the game. I'm tired of two-faced people who act nice and then try to stab you in the back to win an election. I'm tired of newbies being allowed into the game and to wreak havoc with their uneducated opinions. I'm tired of people who cry for reform and say the system is broken, then whine and complain when someone gets into office and tries to actually do something. I'm tired of the "loons" who say we're taking the game too seriously, just because we try to play this "game" properly.

I favour this amendment, but I would like it if voters who vote against it aren't called jokes (even if some may be) and if the AYEs could be more civil in their disagreements with the opposition.

The great share of opposition has come from the newbies themselves, and those who benefit from them. Perhaps not all opposition is a "joke" but the share of the opposition so far pretty much has been hilariously predictable.

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That really hurts Marokai, especially considering how much we garbage mideast newbies love you.

Sarcasm?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I favour this amendment, but I would like it if voters who vote against it aren't called jokes (even if some may be) and if the AYEs could be more civil in their disagreements with the opposition.

The great share of opposition has come from the newbies themselves, and those who benefit from them. Perhaps not all opposition is a "joke" but the share of the opposition so far pretty much has been hilariously predictable.

Can we stop lumping all newbies into one category, mar plij? Yes, some newbies may be trolls/idiots/loons/jokes but there are promising newbies with a real and genuine interest in the game and they may have their reasons to oppose this.

You won't find yourself attracting many new members to Atlasia if you all call them jokes.

Perhaps, but I'm not going to tame my tongue when people like JewishConservative, electoraljew, (both of these voted for MJ, cute enough) cindywho, and catmusic (among many others) are tainting the game here. It's quite clear that this is going to be opposed by the newbies themselves, and those who are using them for political gain.

(Xahar, who I know you don't like me complaining about, but Xahar did marshal the newbies alot, tmth is obviously close to these newbies and there have been a number of concerns about his proximity to the newbie slaves, ilikeverin, who thinks himself an oddball subversive, etc. I can't be kind about my distaste for these people on this issue.)

[Marokai Backbeat]

I never said that.

I realize you're Xahar's friend, and I'm fine with Xahar being back. But don't play ignorant here, we both know Xahar contacted newbies in private during his "exile." New posters just don't sign up and start railing against someone's banning unless they've been egged on.

[Marokai Backbeat]

That the Southeast, the region that passed a bill taking Atlasian currency out of circulation, is the only region with the sense enough to resoundingly pass this amendment speaks volumes about the state of the game.

Indeed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Okay, fair enough.

First of all, if anyone is confused about what repealing the sixth amendment does, it increases the posting requirement to join back to 50 as it was originally.

Secondly, the rationale in favor of this amendment is simple, it's to make sure that the people who are voting and the people who run for office have been around for at least a little while, and participate more. As it currently stands, people, most of whom don't participate in anything important or post at all, can spam 25 posts on the day they register on Atlas, and then join Atlasia without a problem, and can soon after, vote.

This causes alot of problems, because it gives certain people unfair (and honestly, petty and disgusting) advantages because they can (and have) recruited people from off the site just to have them here to vote. Not only that, but they can recruit newbies who otherwise wouldn't have stayed for very long, just for their own benefit, or just recruit people who, quite frankly, shouldn't be here at all. (Like Catmusic)

I'm sure many others here, just like myself, joined Atlas a fair bit before we joined Atlasia. I was a member of Atlas for over a year and only posted regularly a few months in 2008 before Xahar recruited me, and I hadn't even paid much attention to Atlasia. I don't want to force people to go through all that time to wait, but we should be encouraging people to participate in this site and show a commitment to staying before we allow them to join and run for critical office. Voter registration requirements in this amendment, for instance, make it so people have to have joined and been here for at least two weeks and posted at least 50 times (this is incredibly easy to do) before they can join Atlasia. This simple first step demonstrates you are a serious poster with an attitude to participate in threads and stick around for at least a little while.

Officeholding restrictions, are not that much more severe. There are months between election cycles as it is, so simply restricting by a few months when someone can run for the Senate will not have that much of an effect participation wise, it will simply keep brand-new accounts from being able to run, and again increases posting requirements so it shows these people actually show themselves capable of participating in the processes and debate.

Okay...
I oppose this amendment because I think 180 days is too long to wait to be President. As we've seen with some members on here, you can get extremely active on Atlasia, in less than 6 months. Another weakness in the amendment, is what will it actually do? While increasing time you have to wait to register is a good idea, all the other stuff won't help much. It's not like Atlasians are going to go out there and vote for a newbie. And as Earl pointed out, if we ever did vote for a newbie, he or she probably deserved it. It should be up to the people of Atlasia to decide if someone is ready to hold an elected position. And if someone who isn't ready gets elected, well, a lesson will be learned, and they will lose re-election. Also, as Earl said, it's the beauty of democracy.

First of all, if you believe some of these things are toothless then there should be no serious reasons for you to oppose them. Secondly, we have Presidential elections every 120 days in the first place. Should we shorten election cycles, because it is too long to wait to run for President? These are not serious restrictions in light of the actual election cycle times in the first place.

Also, I would again like to clarify that this is not "six months after you joined Atlasia" this is "six months after you registered your account" in the first place. Forgive me, but I would be suspect of any individual who joined this site and immediately jumped into Atlasia. Almost none of us here have done this and those who have have been people we've never seen post again. Where's electoraljew? Cindy? Did catmusic even vote? And what positive contribution has Jewish Conservative made? By the time you've joined Atlas, gotten the posts and time period to join Atlasia in the first place, and waited for the election cycle to roll around, the time constraints are not that big of a factor.

Let's not make a mountain of a molehill, not like you did before, hm?

[Marokai Backbeat]

I've made my points several times, and I've stated why I feel that way. I think taking the chance on people is part of Democracy, making it more exciting. If Atlasia messes up, and gets someone who wasnt ready, they'll learn from that, and make sure to make the correct decision next time.

I think that's a fairly dumb way to run things. All this does is basically makes sure people have to wait the rough equivalent of an election cycle before they can run for those offices. These people can still run for regional legislatures if they exist, such as the Mideast Assembly, or regional executive branches, and can still be appointed to cabinet offices or argue court cases if they come up and they're trusted with doing so. Also, they can still work for reform outside of the system as several people have done. Placing an age limit on Senate and Presidential races roughly the equivalent of an election cycle does not destroy democracy or limit participation. In fact, it could very well encourage it.

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Well, I wouldn't be so sure, given that if circumstances were slightly different, you and/or Ogis could've ended up in the Senate.

[Marokai Backbeat]

There's not enough reason to post here alot outside an election week/two weeks. Requiring a post requirement in this specific forum would make it harder to join and run. That's senseless.

[Marokai Backbeat]

There's not enough reason to post here alot outside an election week/two weeks. Requiring a post requirement in this specific forum would make it harder to join and run. That's senseless.

It's just a suggestion. If no one ever came up with idea's, where would our world be? What if the idea to create Atlasia had never been proposed?
It's probably not brilliant, but it would be like, 25 posts for Senator, 50 for President. Just to prevent someone who has never even posted here to run.

Well, no, it's certainly not brilliant. All that would do is lead to alot of spamming on this board alone and we end up with the same problem we have now. Overall posting requirements are the best way to ensure people post at least something of quality once in awhile, and if they want to join Atlasia or already have, chances are they're going to pop in once in awhile anyway.

Also, this still has nothing to do with your complaining about time limits earlier, what happened to that?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Anything I can do to convince you otherwise? I mean, as I've said, it basically just mandates a slightly longer period than a traditional election cycle (depending on the office) before they can run for it/hold it. By the time "Atlasian A" finds himself with the registration requirements, the fulfilled posts, and an election cycle rolls around, his requirements are probably going to be filled anyhow. In either case, I don't see why there's a reason to oppose it outright.

Also, these things will only affect two offices anyway. It doesn't affect regional legislatures or Governor or Lt. Governor, or any cabinet position, or being able to push their own ideas as citizens whether it be with a newspaper or joining the Constitutional Convention, however long it lasts. There's a wealth of things someone can do if they're actually serious about being in Atlasia.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would agree to an ensuing amendment that reduces the office holding provisions back to normal and slightly raises the time/posting limits for joining.

Hey, quiet, it's not dead yet

[Marokai Backbeat]

I swear if this fails in the Mideast...

Well at least we are doing our part in the South.

I'm still shocked you guys are the sensible ones in this scenario

[Marokai Backbeat]

What happens if there is a majority of Abstentions?

Failure, I believe.