I step down.

[MasterJedi]

Josh or Dan being good or bad is quite irrelevant. I'm quasi-certain that Dan committed voter fraud and I intend to bring this to court.

I don't really care if he's a cool and nice guy, he committed a crime, lied to people, and fooled a number of people.

If Josh didn't have his original account registered here he really couldn't have committed voter fraud.

[Јas]

Josh or Dan being good or bad is quite irrelevant. I'm quasi-certain that Dan committed voter fraud and I intend to bring this to court.

I don't really care if he's a cool and nice guy, he committed a crime, lied to people, and fooled a number of people.

If Josh didn't have his original account registered here he really couldn't have committed voter fraud.

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Josh is not currently on the electoral register, but he has been in the past. Arguably that previous registration represents his "primary identity in Atlasia". Or maybe not...it would seem open to interpretation.

[Franzl]

Wouldn't the deletion of his voter registration eliminate his "existence" in Atlasia, meaning that he wouldn't have any primary identity?

I'd personally lean towards saying it's not voter fraud.

[Devilman88]

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

[Vepres]

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

Will you do anything in the future?

[Јas]

Wouldn't the deletion of his voter registration eliminate his "existence" in Atlasia, meaning that he wouldn't have any primary identity?

I'm not sure if a judicial or legislative determination has ever been made on whether removal from the voter roll extinguishes existence.
(If it was deemed to do so, then that, in and of itself, would seem to present a loophole for any and all persons charged of an offence in Atlasia - simply deregister and avoid trial and punishment.)

[Franzl]

Wouldn't the deletion of his voter registration eliminate his "existence" in Atlasia, meaning that he wouldn't have any primary identity?

I'm not sure if a judicial or legislative determination has ever been made on whether removal from the voter roll extinguishes existence.
(If it was deemed to do so, then that, in and of itself, would seem to present a loophole for any and all persons charged of an offence in Atlasia - simply deregister and avoid trial and punishment.)

That's a fair point.

But do we have anything other than voter registration to determine citizenship/existence in Atlasia?

Is Mint guilty of voter fraud because he used to be NDN? (assuming he was registered under that name at any time....I'm not sure), but let's just assume he was.

I would interpret voter fraud to mean an attempt to actually gain some benefit by having control over more than one vote....such as Ben's usage of "The Populist", but as Josh clearly stopped posting under his original account and switched entirely to Dan, his intent is not likely to be fraud. Of course....his intent isn't relevant, I know that. If your interpretation of the law is correct, than he should certainly be convicted.

[minionofmidas]

Wouldn't the deletion of his voter registration eliminate his "existence" in Atlasia, meaning that he wouldn't have any primary identity?

I'm not sure if a judicial or legislative determination has ever been made on whether removal from the voter roll extinguishes existence.
(If it was deemed to do so, then that, in and of itself, would seem to present a loophole for any and all persons charged of an offence in Atlasia - simply deregister and avoid trial and punishment.)

I seem to recall a verdict delivered by Ernest that ought to touch on the matter...

[minionofmidas]

Thus, for the purposes of the law, the Sam Spade that registered on June 23, 2008 is not the same legal person as the Sam Spade that deregistered on June 15, 2008 and thus is not victor of the election.

[Јas]

Wouldn't the deletion of his voter registration eliminate his "existence" in Atlasia, meaning that he wouldn't have any primary identity?

I'm not sure if a judicial or legislative determination has ever been made on whether removal from the voter roll extinguishes existence.
(If it was deemed to do so, then that, in and of itself, would seem to present a loophole for any and all persons charged of an offence in Atlasia - simply deregister and avoid trial and punishment.)

That's a fair point.

But do we have anything other than voter registration to determine citizenship/existence in Atlasia?

Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of anything with that purpose.

Is Mint guilty of voter fraud because he used to be NDN? (assuming he was registered under that name at any time....I'm not sure), but let's just assume he was.

I'm not sure I understand the question, can you clarify?

I would interpret voter fraud to mean an attempt to actually gain some benefit by having control over more than one vote....such as Ben's usage of "The Populist", but as Josh clearly stopped posting under his original account and switched entirely to Dan, his intent is not likely to be fraud. Of course....his intent isn't relevant, I know that. If your interpretation of the law is correct, than he should certainly be convicted.

I'd need to review the cases on voter fraud (e.g. Atlasia v Keystone Phil, Atlasia v benconstine - neither of which have yet been added to the wiki, unfortunately) to see if there's anything in the Court's decisions there that are helpful here. It just seems to me that on the basis of the wording of the CCJA that there may well be a case to answer.

I don't particularly care much one way or the other on the particular case at hand, but I do think it is the duty of the AG to pursue matters such as this.

[Јas]

Thus, for the purposes of the law, the Sam Spade that registered on June 23, 2008 is not the same legal person as the Sam Spade that deregistered on June 15, 2008 and thus is not victor of the election.

Ah yes, I remember that now.
I still disagree with that view and I concur with the dissent of Chief Justice Bullmoose.

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[Franzl]

I'm not sure I understand the question, can you clarify?

Never mind. My mistake...I thought for some absurd reason that NDN might be a registered voter...

[minionofmidas]

Thus, for the purposes of the law, the Sam Spade that registered on June 23, 2008 is not the same legal person as the Sam Spade that deregistered on June 15, 2008 and thus is not victor of the election.

Ah yes, I remember that now.
I still disagree with that view and I concur with the dissent of Chief Justice Bullmoose.

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Oh, I do as well. IMHO the population of Atlasia consists of all registered Atlas accounts.

But my opinion doesn't make the law around here. The Senate and the Supreme Court do.

[Јas]

Just found this Executive Order of President Joe Republic as well:

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----

But my opinion doesn't make the law around here. The Senate and the Supreme Court do.

Clearly we should put forward a Constitutional Amendment to fix that.

[bgwah]

At a quick glance, Josh last voted in the August 2008 election. Assuming he missed the following elections in October, December, February and April then he would have only been officially deregistered in late April 2009. However, Dan registered on March 29th, 2009. Thus I think it is likely that the Dan and Josh accounts were registered at the same time.

[Јas]

At a quick glance, Josh last voted in the August 2008 election. Assuming he missed the following elections in October, December, February and April then he would have only been officially deregistered in late April 2009. However, Dan registered on March 29th, 2009. Thus I think it is likely that the Dan and Josh accounts were registered at the same time.

Yeah. The SoFA doesn't appear to have made a specific announcement himself; however, Josh/Dan was regularly updating the Registered Voter Roll on the wiki and removed the Josh registration (as part of a more widespread update) on 22 April.

[Хahar 🤔]

Dammit, every time this happens I don't know the person.  Who is/was Josh22?  A member search doesn't bring that name.

Too bad though, I had a rather high opinion of "Dan".

Try searching Josh4Bush. He had an independent Avatar from NC, he also had a big thing for Kay Hagan in the last election and was so sure she would win for months before it even looked possible.

Okay, so I looked over josh4bush's latest posts, which were in March, and found nothing objectionable or controversial.  What did this guy do?

Changed his positions every two weeks.

[Peter]

Just found this Executive Order of President Joe Republic as well:

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That order was superceded by the Deregistration Act which explicitly voided that Executive Order (the Act was passed in Jan 06 and the Order was promulgated in Dec 05).
That Act was then repealed by The Act to Repeal the Deregistration Act.

I would tend to argue that Republic's Order is still voided under the common law doctrine that was enshrined under Section 1 of the Second Miscellany Act

[Purple State]

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

You showed that you clearly did not care about this game when you disguised your identity, waited until you won something and then resigned like it was a big joke. I doubt many people here enjoy being taken for fools.

[Fritz]

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

You showed that you clearly did not care about this game when you disguised your identity, waited until you won something and then resigned like it was a big joke. I doubt many people here enjoy being taken for fools.

It appears to me that Dan came clean when he did, because of a guilty conscience.  He knew he was doing something wrong, and he needed to get it off his chest.  He should be prosecuted for his crime, that is after all part of the game (and expel him from the DA, whatever).  But I think his participation here is a valuable asset, and we would be doing ourselves a great disservice by driving him out entirely.  I give Dan credit for owning up to his mis-deeds, he did not have to do that.  So lets have a trial for the voter fraud, expel him from the DA if you must, and call the whole ordeal over and done with.  I for one want him to remain active here.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

You showed that you clearly did not care about this game when you disguised your identity, waited until you won something and then resigned like it was a big joke. I doubt many people here enjoy being taken for fools.

It appears to me that Dan came clean when he did, because of a guilty conscience.  He knew he was doing something wrong, and he needed to get it off his chest.  He should be prosecuted for his crime, that is after all part of the game (and expel him from the DA, whatever).  But I think his participation here is a valuable asset, and we would be doing ourselves a great disservice by driving him out entirely.  I give Dan credit for owning up to his mis-deeds, he did not have to do that.  So lets have a trial for the voter fraud, expel him from the DA if you must, and call the whole ordeal over and done with.  I for one want him to remain active here.

I agree with Fritz.

[Purple State]

Goodbye, Dan a.k.a. Josh22

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

You showed that you clearly did not care about this game when you disguised your identity, waited until you won something and then resigned like it was a big joke. I doubt many people here enjoy being taken for fools.

It appears to me that Dan came clean when he did, because of a guilty conscience.  He knew he was doing something wrong, and he needed to get it off his chest.  He should be prosecuted for his crime, that is after all part of the game (and expel him from the DA, whatever).  But I think his participation here is a valuable asset, and we would be doing ourselves a great disservice by driving him out entirely.  I give Dan credit for owning up to his mis-deeds, he did not have to do that.  So lets have a trial for the voter fraud, expel him from the DA if you must, and call the whole ordeal over and done with.  I for one want him to remain active here.

He made a mockery of the announcement. He could have made a respectable speech, rather than stick his tongue at us and make a mockery of this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Goodbye, Dan a.k.a. Josh22

I just want to say, I step down, because I lied to most everyone and was living a lie. And Atlasia needs someone better then that. I still love this game and wish it the best of luck, but it needs someone better then me. It was hard for me to step down and leave, but if I didn't and people found out who I was while in the senate, it would have hurt the game very much so. I'm sorry and wish you guys the best of luck.

You showed that you clearly did not care about this game when you disguised your identity, waited until you won something and then resigned like it was a big joke. I doubt many people here enjoy being taken for fools.

It appears to me that Dan came clean when he did, because of a guilty conscience.  He knew he was doing something wrong, and he needed to get it off his chest.  He should be prosecuted for his crime, that is after all part of the game (and expel him from the DA, whatever).  But I think his participation here is a valuable asset, and we would be doing ourselves a great disservice by driving him out entirely.  I give Dan credit for owning up to his mis-deeds, he did not have to do that.  So lets have a trial for the voter fraud, expel him from the DA if you must, and call the whole ordeal over and done with.  I for one want him to remain active here.

He made a mockery of the announcement. He could have made a respectable speech, rather than stick his tongue at us and make a mockery of this.

Purple State, I am going to make a suggestion. You really need to stop taking things so personally all the time. Now yes Josh was mocking us, but if he chooses to contribute positively then I see no reason to prevent him. If he continues to cause trouble then we will take necessary measures.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Funny the way it is, if you think about it. Somebody’s going hungry and someone else is eating out! Funny the way it is, not right or wrong. Somebody’s heart is broken and it becomes your favorite song!

In essence, Purple State's broken heart is becoming NC Yankee's favorite song, and it hurts so good!

[Sam Spade]

Thus, for the purposes of the law, the Sam Spade that registered on June 23, 2008 is not the same legal person as the Sam Spade that deregistered on June 15, 2008 and thus is not victor of the election.

Ah yes, I remember that now.
I still disagree with that view and I concur with the dissent of Chief Justice Bullmoose.

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Remember though, that the SC is housed by different people now...