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Author Topic: For Brazil history junkies  (Read 1068 times)
Proud Lieberal from Northeast
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« on: July 05, 2009, 06:40:41 pm »
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While waiting for next chapter of Hashemite's "O Eterno Império" I'd like to ask Brazil history junkies, if we have those on forum, about following scenarios:

What would happen if:

1. Vargas never taker a power (1930)
2. Quadros did not resign (1961)
3. No coup, Goulart allowed to complete his term (1964)
4. Both Geisel and Figueiredo didn't started "opening" and military regime remained at Médici stage
5. Neved did not die, no Sarney administration (1985)
6. Lula elected over Collor (1990)
7. Collor not impeached (1992)
8. Itamar Franco allowed to run again and reelected (no suprise, he enjoyed 80+ approval job ranting), no Carodoso (1994)
or: Franco resigned earlied, as he tried to do (1993)

I know this is a lost of options, but I was always curious Smiley
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Norman Thomas
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 04:54:33 pm »
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I think we're rather alone Sad

1. Vargas never taker a power (1930)

Whatever happens, the República Velha would not have survived. The whole system of coronelismo and café com leite was challenged by the middle-class liberals, the Communists, the fascist Integralists. Then you had the depression. A military coup was quite inevitable by 1929/1930.

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2. Quadros did not resign (1961)

Not sure. The PTB was only the third party in Congress and his pro-Soviet bloc policies prevented the UDN from supporting him. He would have been largely powerless, until the 1962 congressional elections... and in RL the PTB didn't have a majority there either.

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3. No coup, Goulart allowed to complete his term (1964)

I think that's pretty unlikely, the military was too right-wing for such a leftist. Anyways, nothing would've happened. His agrarian reform and oil nationalization couldn't have been done.

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4. Both Geisel and Figueiredo didn't started "opening" and military regime remained at Médici stage

Geisel had it in him to open the regime, stemming from his legalist tradition. I think he saw it as a duty, in a way.

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5. Neved did not die, no Sarney administration (1985)

Hard to say how Neves would have been. We have little stuff to give an indication of how he would have been. I suspect that he would still be hurt by the economic problems that Sarney faced.

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7. Collor not impeached (1992)

He would still be unpopular due to the allegations of corruption and he'd be remembered as a crappy President.

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8. Itamar Franco allowed to run again and reelected (no suprise, he enjoyed 80+ approval job ranting), no Carodoso (1994)

Franco would probably have been a better President than Cardoso, but with largely the same policies (remember, Cardoso was Franco's Finance Minister)
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Proud Lieberal from Northeast
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 06:54:26 pm »
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Agreed 100% on República Velha. Long Brazil has been dubben a "sleeping power", but under this crappy system... No way República Velha could survive and very well

Quadros... I've never considered him "pro-Soviet", rather a man who pursed an indendent foreign policy, but fact is, he lost virtually all support in Congress.

Had Goulart survive, opposition to his left-wing policies was too large and I don't see possibility of significant reforms. Sadly

I have to admitt I always liked Itamar Franco. He restored integrity in the government after all the mess Collor caused. But I also liked his, well, colorful persona Wink. Also I read recently an article about his role in stopping some-kind of coup attempt (http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/07/world/brazilian-official-tells-of-93-plot.html).

I don't know regarding economy, as Cardoso was much more economically conservative than Franco, who later bitterrly fought with his successor while Governor of  Minas Gerais.
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 04:24:06 pm »
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More ideas:

1. Related to the no-1964 coup idea, how would the 1965 elections play out? ftr, the candidates were likely to be Carlos Lacerda (UDN), Kubitschek (PSD), Adhemar (PSP) maybe Miguel Arraes (leftie) and Magalhaes Pinto (UDN)
2. Odilon Braga (UDN) is elected VP in 1950 (and not Vargas' running-mate). What effect does this have on the 1954-1955 period and on?
3. Juarez Tavora (UDN) is elected President in 1955 over Kubitschek.
4. Vargas doesn't stage a coup in 1937, 1938 elections go on as planned. Who wins?
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 04:14:48 pm »
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More ideas:

1. Related to the no-1964 coup idea, how would the 1965 elections play out? ftr, the candidates were likely to be Carlos Lacerda (UDN), Kubitschek (PSD), Adhemar (PSP) maybe Miguel Arraes (leftie) and Magalhaes Pinto (UDN)


I think that left would unite with some of former Quadros' supporters to put Arraes as presidential candidate with a PTB support. My doubt would be about the VP. He could be Waldir Pires, Darcy Ribeiro... Kubitschek would be candidate but he would have to find a strong support outside PSD. He was very popular but hadn't support in PTB. The UDN would have a bitter convention between Magalhães and Lacerda and a split is very probable. I think that Magalhães could make an agreement to be candidate by a minor party because he had the money to be candidate alone. Adhemar that regained São Paulo's control can be candidate or a king maker
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2. Odilon Braga (UDN) is elected VP in 1950 (and not Vargas' running-mate). What effect does this have on the 1954-1955 period and on?

I think that would require a better VP than Arantes(PR) to Machado (PSD). The PR was a strong party in Minas and Café Filho hadn't ran a campaign there. Arantes, an elder São Paulo's former governor won the election there. The VP could have been Bernardes Jr. or Victorino Freire that made a pro-Machado independent candidacy. Popular support to Vargas would be stronger and a civil war is very probable.
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3. Juarez Tavora (UDN) is elected President in 1955 over Kubitschek.
No Brasília, No "Goals' Plan" and much of Vargas' legate would be starved.
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4. Vargas doesn't stage a coup in 1937, 1938 elections go on as planned. Who wins?
The candidates were:
1. José Américo de Almeida (pro-Vargas)
2. Armando Salles de Oliveira (anti-Vargas center-right)
3. Plínio Salgado (integralist)
Salles de Oliveira would have good conditions because his control of São Paulo and support of leftists post-1935. Getúlio would have to run a big campaign to elect Almeida and bully many governors. The results would be very contested but I think that Almeida would be the winner.
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