Should "Fairfax County" become a city?

[phk]

Should "Fairfax County" become a city?

Tyler Cowen

Should Fairfax County become a proper city?  It has over a million people, many more than Washington, D.C.  The bottom line seems to be this:

The basis for the idea is largely tactical -- under state law, cities have more taxing power and greater control over roads than counties do -- and it led to more than a few snickers about the thrilling nightlife in downtown Fairfax (punch line: there isn't any).

Natasha could no longer say "We are from Washington":

If Fairfax does become a city, it would instantly become one of the largest in the nation, the size of San Antonio or San Jose.

It would also diverge dramatically from the stereotype of the gritty metropolis. Fairfax enjoys many of the benefits -- wealth and jobs -- and few of the detriments -- crime, troubled schools -- of a large urban center. With a median household income of $105,000, it is the wealthiest large county in the nation. Among large school systems, it boasts the highest test scores. And it has the lowest murder rate among the nation's 30 largest cities and counties.

One question is why this rather uncoordinated mix works so well.  Federal dollars, diversity of immigration, and diversity of planning strategies all can be cited.  The latter factor probably means we should not touch the status quo.  And by the way, almost all of our nightlife is Korean but it does exist.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

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That sounds like a positive to me. I find it pretentious when people say they're from Washington but don't live in the city.

Otherwise, I don't know.

[Stampever]

If the county is only looking for a means to increase tax revenues, then I say no.  If the core of the population center within Fairfax wishes to break away from the county to form an indpendent city, then that might be different. However, I do not know Virignia's law regarding the independent cities within the Commonwealth.

[Brittain33]

It's a strange artifact of Virginia's constitution that making minor modifications to your form of government could suddenly make you one of the largest cities in the country.

What is the rural city in the south? Sussex or Suffolk? It's just another form of county government, really?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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That sounds like a positive to me. I find it pretentious when people say they're from Washington but don't live in the city.

Agreed. It's true for any city. If you don't live within the city limits, you are not from the city, so don't say you are, period.

[Brittain33]

Agreed. It's true for any city. If you don't live within the city limits, you are not from the city, so don't say you are, period.

Depends where you are. I don't expect people outside the Boston area to know what Somerville is. It's close enough to the city that I can and do walk home from work in nice weather, which many people living within city limits to the south couldn't do. If I tell people I live in Boston, it's not because I want to borrow any of the prestige of living in the city. It's because for their purposes, it's an accurate reflection of where I live. When I'm in the city, I don't tell people I live in Boston, because that would be misleading.

[Keystone Phil]

Agreed. It's true for any city. If you don't live within the city limits, you are not from the city, so don't say you are, period.

Totally agree

[Ban my account ffs!]

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That sounds like a positive to me. I find it pretentious when people say they're from Washington but don't live in the city.

Agreed. It's true for any city. If you don't live within the city limits, you are not from the city, so don't say you are, period.

That's a piss poor argument.  People identify themselves as being "From the Twin Cities" regardless of whether they live in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or Lakeville.

If your city and metro area share the same time, then it would make sense to say, for example, that you are from L.A even if you live in the 'burbs.

I don't live in the city limits of Bemidji, yet I am from Bemidji.  I went to Bemidji schools, Bemidji police come when we call 911, etc.  It's because I live in the "Bemidji area"

Of course this can vary greatly.  For whatever reason, when people say "I'm from Washington, D.C" I think they actually live in the city while if they say "we're from Chicago" it can mean anywhere in the Chicago metro area. 

[Keystone Phil]

People identify themselves as being "From the Twin Cities" regardless of whether they live in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or Lakeville.

And we're saying that that's stupid.

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But you're not actually from LA.

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Living in "the area" is not the same as being "from" that area's major city.

Of course, we're all allowed our double standards. My Dad's side of the family claims to be from the Naples area/Napolitans. The truth is (as far as I know) that we are actually from a small town about an hour outside of the city. I guess you can call it the Naples area but we're not actually Napolitan. It's not really a double standard, though, since I stress that we're from the Naples area, not actually from the city.

I kind of feel bad for the people that live across the creek from me. They experience basically everything that I experience but I get to call myself a Philadelphian and it's the truth, while they're not.   

I can understand when you're on a trip or something and someone asks where you're from. I'm not expecting people that live across the creek from me to say, "Oh, I'm from Andalusia!" Personally, I would say that but I'd expect everyone to follow it up with, "I'm from the Philadelphia area/just outside of Philly."

[bgwah]

This thread is OCD on a scary level.

[Хahar 🤔]

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That sounds like a positive to me. I find it pretentious when people say they're from Washington but don't live in the city.

Agreed. It's true for any city. If you don't live within the city limits, you are not from the city, so don't say you are, period.

What if you live in a non-urban area with little connection to the city but inside the city limits?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Can you name any such areas?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BTW, it's kind of amazing how completely me and Phil are in agreement here.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

A little history on incorporation in my corner of Virginia:

All of the counties that became cities in Hampton Roads back in the 60s and 70s did so because of annexations. In Virginia, cities can (or at least could, I'm not sure if they still are able to) annex parts of surrounding counties, but cannot annex parts of other cities. This led to the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth annexing large parts of what were then Norfolk and Princess Anne Counties. Subsequently, Norfolk County incorporated as the City of Chesapeake and Princess Anne County incorporated as the City of Virginia Beach. Three other counties also did this, although I don't believe they were being gobbled up by nearby municipalities -- Elizabeth City County (Hampton), Warwick County (Newport News), and Nansemond County (Suffolk). So this had lead to "cities" that are largely rural and/or suburban -- Suffolk is largely rural, although it's experienced a lot of development over the past decade, and Chesapeake and Virginia Beach are mostly suburban which still have some rural southern parts.

Counties can't split off parts of themselves to create new cities (this is incorrect), however cities can dis-incorporate and become part of a county (as a town) again. This has occurred a couple times in recent years -- I believe South Boston and Clifton Forge both did this earlier in the decade.

[Ban my account ffs!]

People identify themselves as being "From the Twin Cities" regardless of whether they live in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or Lakeville.

And we're saying that that's stupid.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But you're not actually from LA.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Living in "the area" is not the same as being "from" that area's major city.

Of course, we're all allowed our double standards. My Dad's side of the family claims to be from the Naples area/Napolitans. The truth is (as far as I know) that we are actually from a small town about an hour outside of the city. I guess you can call it the Naples area but we're not actually Napolitan. It's not really a double standard, though, since I stress that we're from the Naples area, not actually from the city.

I kind of feel bad for the people that live across the creek from me. They experience basically everything that I experience but I get to call myself a Philadelphian and it's the truth, while they're not.   

I can understand when you're on a trip or something and someone asks where you're from. I'm not expecting people that live across the creek from me to say, "Oh, I'm from Andalusia!" Personally, I would say that but I'd expect everyone to follow it up with, "I'm from the Philadelphia area/just outside of Philly."

The only reason you get away with that is because you're form a pretty well known city.  If you asked somebody where they were from, and they said "Erskine"... you'd probably be going "where the hell?"

But if they said "a small town in northwestern Minnesota called Erskine", it would make sense.

But when you live in a metropolitan area, which is a legally defined densely populated area consisting of and surrounding a main city or cities.  Those metro areas most likely take the name of the major city therein.  

So, when I ask people where they're from, and they say "The Twin Cities" or "Chicago", I understand it as meaning the metro area.  I then ask "where in the Twin Cities?" and then they specify which city or suburb.

Now, if somebody said to me "I'm from St. Paul", I'd know immediately that they're from the city of St. Paul.  But that's because the metro name is different than the major cities in that metro and the person probably knows you have some knowledge of the metro area.

Almost anyone that comes here from California would say "I'm from L.A"... and you have to ask "where in L.A?" to which if they respond "oh, Orange County" you just roll your eyes and end the conversation.  

[Sbane]

People identify themselves as being "From the Twin Cities" regardless of whether they live in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or Lakeville.

And we're saying that that's stupid.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But you're not actually from LA.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Living in "the area" is not the same as being "from" that area's major city.

Of course, we're all allowed our double standards. My Dad's side of the family claims to be from the Naples area/Napolitans. The truth is (as far as I know) that we are actually from a small town about an hour outside of the city. I guess you can call it the Naples area but we're not actually Napolitan. It's not really a double standard, though, since I stress that we're from the Naples area, not actually from the city.

I kind of feel bad for the people that live across the creek from me. They experience basically everything that I experience but I get to call myself a Philadelphian and it's the truth, while they're not.   

I can understand when you're on a trip or something and someone asks where you're from. I'm not expecting people that live across the creek from me to say, "Oh, I'm from Andalusia!" Personally, I would say that but I'd expect everyone to follow it up with, "I'm from the Philadelphia area/just outside of Philly."

I don't think there is anything wrong with identifying with a major city when you are outside the metropolitan area. I don't want to have to explain where Pleasanton is when someone just wants to know the general area I am from and really doesn't care if I live in the major city or its suburb. It's easy for me of course since I can just say I am from the bay area and then if they are interested I can go into details. But that's not true for someone from most metropolitan regions of America. So to me it would make sense if they identified with the closest major city.

[Storebought]

If you are from a hamlet or just the suburb of a major city, just say so. Is your self-esteem is so fragile that you need to lie about your own past just to satisfy a stranger whose opinion doesn't even really matter?

[Sbane]

People identify themselves as being "From the Twin Cities" regardless of whether they live in Minneapolis, St. Paul, or Lakeville.

And we're saying that that's stupid.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But you're not actually from LA.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Living in "the area" is not the same as being "from" that area's major city.

Of course, we're all allowed our double standards. My Dad's side of the family claims to be from the Naples area/Napolitans. The truth is (as far as I know) that we are actually from a small town about an hour outside of the city. I guess you can call it the Naples area but we're not actually Napolitan. It's not really a double standard, though, since I stress that we're from the Naples area, not actually from the city.

I kind of feel bad for the people that live across the creek from me. They experience basically everything that I experience but I get to call myself a Philadelphian and it's the truth, while they're not.   

I can understand when you're on a trip or something and someone asks where you're from. I'm not expecting people that live across the creek from me to say, "Oh, I'm from Andalusia!" Personally, I would say that but I'd expect everyone to follow it up with, "I'm from the Philadelphia area/just outside of Philly."

Almost anyone that comes here from California would say "I'm from L.A"... and you have to ask "where in L.A?" to which if they respond "oh, Orange County" you just roll your eyes and end the conversation.  

Haha. I don't know why anyone in OC would have to identify with LA when there have been all these sh**t shows made about it recently and the place has become famous (as if it wasn't before). If they do that, it is obviously because they don't want to be identified with OC and that is of course understandable. But at the same time if someone from Riverside were to say they are from the "Inland Empire", most people would have no clue. For them it would make sense to say "I'm from LA". Also locally most people from LA county do tend to just identify themselves as from "LA" while OC folks identify as from the OC and the Riverside/San Bernardino folks identify themselves as from the IE. Most cities are indistinguishable from each other down here so it really doesn't matter.

[Sbane]

If you are from a hamlet or just the suburb of a major city, just say so. Is your self-esteem is so fragile that you need to lie about your own past just to satisfy a stranger whose opinion doesn't even really matter?

Except that in the vast majority of cases this is not the primary consideration, rather it is convenience .

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Is it that inconvenient to add the word "area" on after the city's name?

[Sbane]

But why would you if the other person doesn't even care if you are from the city or its surroundings?

[phk]

I love how one sentence in the original post caused such a thread-jack.

[ilikeverin]

Saying I'm from "Plymouth" is about as useful as saying I'm from "Springfield"... and saying I'm from "Plymouth, a suburb of Minneapolis" is just as useful as saying I'm from "Minneapolis" to people who live outside the Twin Cities metropolitan area, so why do people care if I say the latter rather than the former?

[Storebought]

If you are from a hamlet or just the suburb of a major city, just say so. Is your self-esteem is so fragile that you need to lie about your own past just to satisfy a stranger whose opinion doesn't even really matter?

Except that in the vast majority of cases this is not the primary consideration, rather it is convenience .

Even when it isn't true?

And to answer phknrocket's question -- Virginia has a history of creating oddball cities from mostly rural counties, so they have the power to make Fairfax, VA the 7th largest suburb-city in the US.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It is useful to know if you're from a suburb or from the actual urban area considering how different they are. Just because they are within a 20 mile radius doesn't make them similar.

When I say I'm from "Minneapolis", I want people to know I mean just that. Not a suburb.