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Author Topic: Protest for new management of the ConCon.  (Read 7426 times)
Marokai Besieged
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« on: July 16, 2009, 12:19:12 am »
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I believe Purple State has lost sight of not only what we've been trying to accomplish, but also of what his job is supposed to be and the simple procedure here. He has ignored proposals, such as mine, Lief's, and MaxQue's, and used his position to push forward his own ideas over all others even though they've been previously rejected by the Senate. Purple State has demonstrated stubbornness and grand-standing, and while he started the job well, has done a less than stellar job as of late.

Purple State has made it very clear that he simply wants his ideas passed, and in doing so demonstrates a very counter productive attitude towards game reform. We should be discussing more than just what he wants. We should be conducting critical votes with more than just three freaking people. There are other ideas out there supported among the delegates that he has yet to even acknowledge.

Given all the above, and the belief that I or another delegate could do a much better job of broadening the discussion (I would entertain all ideas for discussion) I call for Purple State to step down as Presiding Officer.

Sign if you support the protest of Purple State's POship.

x Marokai Blue
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bgwah
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 12:20:20 am »
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X Bgwah
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Countess Anya of the North Parish
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 12:27:07 am »
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that is not good. could you give me the links where he did this act.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 12:32:02 am »
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that is not good. could you give me the links where he did this act.

Even though the rules and procedures require more people to vote, here he allows critical amendments to pass with just two ayes.

Around here he admits he doesn't want a CoG because it doesn't do precisely what his proposal does. (Forcing regions to do something against their will, basically.)

Lief and Max supported this, and I later did as well, but Purple State didn't give a damn.

I proposed this a MONTH ago, and the proposal went completely ignored by him.

Edit: By the way, Purple State is not a delegate, he shouldn't even be proposing anything.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 12:34:43 am »
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Given than Purple State must do a vote on all things and than he decided to only hold votes on his proposal and than he closed a vote against the rules of this Constitutional Convention, I must sign that protest.

X MaxQue
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Хahar
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 12:59:13 am »
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Stop whining.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 01:02:05 am »
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Stop whining.

Don't you have a revolution to run? Tongue
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Ebowed
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 01:11:58 am »
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Stop whining.

Don't you have a revolution to run? Tongue

He would, but no one read the post where he announced it.
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Vepres
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 01:16:31 am »
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What Purple State is doing is justified. The convention had slowed to a complete stop, and was dead for a month. He's trying to get something done, and frankly, having multiple proposals, some of which (I'm not too familiar with them) probably wouldn't make it through public referendum, is not the way to get things done.
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Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
Countess Anya of the North Parish
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 01:22:21 am »
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that is not good. could you give me the links where he did this act.

Even though the rules and procedures require more people to vote, here he allows critical amendments to pass with just two ayes.

Around here he admits he doesn't want a CoG because it doesn't do precisely what his proposal does. (Forcing regions to do something against their will, basically.)

Lief and Max supported this, and I later did as well, but Purple State didn't give a damn.

I proposed this a MONTH ago, and the proposal went completely ignored by him.

Edit: By the way, Purple State is not a delegate, he shouldn't even be proposing anything.
hmm interesting. thanx for the links. Why was he not a delegate may i ask?
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Хahar
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 01:28:13 am »
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Stop whining.

Don't you have a revolution to run? Tongue

He would, but no one read the post where he announced it.

Precisely. Wondered how the Einzige route would work out.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 02:53:04 am »
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that is not good. could you give me the links where he did this act.

Even though the rules and procedures require more people to vote, here he allows critical amendments to pass with just two ayes.

Around here he admits he doesn't want a CoG because it doesn't do precisely what his proposal does. (Forcing regions to do something against their will, basically.)

Lief and Max supported this, and I later did as well, but Purple State didn't give a damn.

I proposed this a MONTH ago, and the proposal went completely ignored by him.

Edit: By the way, Purple State is not a delegate, he shouldn't even be proposing anything.
hmm interesting. thanx for the links. Why was he not a delegate may i ask?

Wasn't elected to the position, unlike the rest of us here Wink
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MaxQue
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 03:17:53 am »
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What Purple State is doing is justified. The convention had slowed to a complete stop, and was dead for a month. He's trying to get something done, and frankly, having multiple proposals, some of which (I'm not too familiar with them) probably wouldn't make it through public referendum, is not the way to get things done.

Convention rules are Convention rules. You can't decide to not respect them like that!
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PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 07:45:01 am »
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Who cares? This thingee is going into a hole no matter what, so let's stop taking this ConCon as if it was going somewhere to begin with.
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Purple State
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 02:13:40 pm »
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I'll post once in my defense and attempt to clarify the cases Marokai mentions. After that, I will be happy to initiate a vote for my removal as two delegates (bgwah and Max) have seconded the motion (I assume you meant to bring such a motion Marokai?).

First, the instance in which no quorum was met, yet an amendment was passed, was on an informal proposal, one that I had concocted. My intent was to amend those thoughts based on the wishes of the delegates in order to find some sort of compromise. As it was an unofficial proposal (i.e. not one introduced by a delegate), my discretion dictated no quorum was necessary. It was as if I simply posted my thoughts and asked others to comment, albeit slightly more democratically. In addition, the changes were not ones that I agreed with (at all), so to say that I simply want my agenda passed is a flimsy case to make.

As to the general running of the Convention, I would have loved it if I was simply able to bring delegate proposals to the floor for votes and carry forward the Convention directed by the delegates. Unfortunately, hardly any independent actions or proposals were initiated by delegates. The Convention carried on for too long without any actual concrete proposals from delegates themselves. In fact, delegates deemed it appropriate to simply state their views and leave it to me to write that all up as something coherent (might I add despite my persistent pleas that you present formal proposals and motions on your own). That forced me to take part in actually writing most of the proposals myself, a time consuming action that was never meant to be part of my job description.

It also became necessary, just to promote participation by delegates, to introduce proposals and then wait for reactionary thoughts and proposals. Without the faux-"controversy" that I, at times, initiated, nothing would have been done here. I am proud that, through consistent pressure, we were able to craft almost a complete proposal in the Parliamentary Bicameralism thread before rampant inactivity sidelined those efforts.

As I will not be stepping down, if you still wish to remove me simply post a formal motion in this thread so that I can be sure of your intent and I will bring it to a vote. Otherwise, I will entertain any formal motion you provide to initiate debate or vote on a proposal.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 03:51:27 pm »
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I'll post once in my defense and attempt to clarify the cases Marokai mentions. After that, I will be happy to initiate a vote for my removal as two delegates (bgwah and Max) have seconded the motion (I assume you meant to bring such a motion Marokai?).

I would prefer you step down, as there are others out there who haven't come public here, but if I have to do something more formal, I'll do it.

Quote
First, the instance in which no quorum was met, yet an amendment was passed, was on an informal proposal, one that I had concocted. My intent was to amend those thoughts based on the wishes of the delegates in order to find some sort of compromise. As it was an unofficial proposal (i.e. not one introduced by a delegate), my discretion dictated no quorum was necessary. It was as if I simply posted my thoughts and asked others to comment, albeit slightly more democratically. In addition, the changes were not ones that I agreed with (at all), so to say that I simply want my agenda passed is a flimsy case to make.

As to the general running of the Convention, I would have loved it if I was simply able to bring delegate proposals to the floor for votes and carry forward the Convention directed by the delegates. Unfortunately, hardly any independent actions or proposals were initiated by delegates. The Convention carried on for too long without any actual concrete proposals from delegates themselves. In fact, delegates deemed it appropriate to simply state their views and leave it to me to write that all up as something coherent (might I add despite my persistent pleas that you present formal proposals and motions on your own). That forced me to take part in actually writing most of the proposals myself, a time consuming action that was never meant to be part of my job description.

As if doing something that wasn't part of your job description was ever a problem for you. You brought forward your own proposals even though you are not an elected delegate and you routinely volunteered to write things up for people throughout the convention.

I'll try to write something up tonight after work.

My proposal (and no, its not a carbon copy of my previous proposal, read carefully):

Emphasis mine. Point is, you show favoritism with what you want to write up and what you just want to ignore, and you propose things even though you should most definitely not have that power. You were elected to your position amongst the delegates to do what we told you, to propose what we wanted, and to follow our suggestion, and you were elected because I pushed for you to be in the position.

Now you're here acting like the God of Reform. Listening to what you want to listen to and not entertaining anything else.

Quote
It also became necessary, just to promote participation by delegates, to introduce proposals and then wait for reactionary thoughts and proposals. Without the faux-"controversy" that I, at times, initiated, nothing would have been done here. I am proud that, through consistent pressure, we were able to craft almost a complete proposal in the Parliamentary Bicameralism thread before rampant inactivity sidelined those efforts.

As I will not be stepping down, if you still wish to remove me simply post a formal motion in this thread so that I can be sure of your intent and I will bring it to a vote. Otherwise, I will entertain any formal motion you provide to initiate debate or vote on a proposal.

I have a fun idea, let's do an "informal" vote on your job of PO and remove you with a few ayes. Might be fun.

I don't care what word you give it, "informal" "formal" "dressy-casual," you ignored the very clear rules that you were put in place as PO to follow. What if you couldn't manage to pass something with the numbers required, shouldn't that tell you something about this ConCon?

You are always trying to be in the center of something, and it's getting on my and other peoples' nerves. Tried to be the center of attention in the battle against Bgwah over Ebowed as Game Moderator. Tried to be at the center of attention during the Special Election by trying to pander to the RPP, why, feeling vulnerable? Tried to be the center of attention by being the one to propose some gigantic set of amendments in the Senate. And now you're trying to be the center of attention here by favoring your proposals. I'm tired of your grand-standing and your headline grabbing. It's time for you to go.
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Countess Anya of the North Parish
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 04:03:22 pm »
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why remove him?
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2009, 04:08:58 pm »
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why remove him?

that is not good. could you give me the links where he did this act.

Even though the rules and procedures require more people to vote, here he allows critical amendments to pass with just two ayes.

Around here he admits he doesn't want a CoG because it doesn't do precisely what his proposal does. (Forcing regions to do something against their will, basically.)

Lief and Max supported this, and I later did as well, but Purple State didn't give a damn.

I proposed this a MONTH ago, and the proposal went completely ignored by him.

Edit: By the way, Purple State is not a delegate, he shouldn't even be proposing anything.

Almost anyone could do a better job. Purple State is grandstanding and just trying to push through what he wants, and if another (I say another, but since PS isn't one..) delegate doesn't do anything better then we should just shut everything down. I wanted something out of this place but I don't want a rule-ignoring favoritism-having grand-standing ignoring-limits-of-his-office hypocritical Presiding Officer in charge.
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Vepres
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 04:29:08 pm »
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Did any delegates write up a complete first draft proposal for discussion? No. At least not lately.
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LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2009, 04:30:21 pm »
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Did any delegates write up a complete first draft proposal for discussion? No. At least not lately.

That's sort of my point. He's criticizing people for not coming up with drafts, and that's why he says he doesn't bring them up, but he's more than happy to write all the proposals he likes.
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Хahar
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2009, 04:31:38 pm »
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I'm fine with making you PO. I suppose everything will magically get better.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Vepres
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2009, 04:40:37 pm »
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Did any delegates write up a complete first draft proposal for discussion? No. At least not lately.

That's sort of my point. He's criticizing people for not coming up with drafts, and that's why he says he doesn't bring them up, but he's more than happy to write all the proposals he likes.

I think he can introduce his own proposals as if he was a delegate. I scanned through the rules of order, and I don't believe there is anything that said he can't do that (correct me if I'm wrong). If you or another delegate drafted a preliminary proposal, I'm sure Purple State would open debate on said draft.

My point is, the delegates have responsibilities beyond voting, including the drafting of a proposal or an amendment should they want to. If you could draft the amendments to the constitution you wish to see in the correct format, things may be different.
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LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
ℒief
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2009, 05:04:56 pm »
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X Lief

I don't do this easily, since obviously running this thing is a time consuming and difficult job, and despite any faults, PS has done very well. However, his recent actions, as well as just the way this ConCon has been going, leads me to believe that it's time he passes the torch.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2009, 06:47:53 pm »
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X Bacon King

I pretty much concur exactly with what Lief said.
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BK without all the crazy drugs just wouldn't be BK.

MasterJedi
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2009, 08:14:00 pm »

No offense to anyone in this but I must ask a question:

If I sign this will it make it less likely for anything to get done? If so I'll sign since this whole ConCon isn't necessary.
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