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Author Topic: Cold War Survivor: Soviet &"sister" party leaders: IMRE NAGY is the SURVIVOR !  (Read 24849 times)
big bad fab
filliatre
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« on: July 24, 2009, 05:28:04 pm »

These are the leaders (general secretaries or first secretaries or presidents of the party, with the sole exception of Nagy, PM, and of secretary Rakowski, not included as he wasn't Poland's nr.1 at that time) of Communist Parties (whatever their real name) in power in the USSR and in the Central and East European countries between 1945-49 and 1989 (November, 9th, Berlin wall's fall), that were, at least for a period of time, members of the Warsaw Pact.
Hence, Yugoslavia is not included (besides, with one leader each year after 1980, it would have been a bit long... sorry to our "titists" !).


1. Wladyslaw Gomulka (Poland, 1945-1948, 1956-1970)
2. Boleslaw Bierut (Poland, 1948-1956)
3. Edward Ochab (Poland, 1956)   
4. Edward Gierek (Poland, 1970-1980)   
5. Stanislaw Kania (Poland, 1980-1981)   
6. Wojciech Jaruzelski (Poland, 1981-1989)   

7. Georgi Dimitrov (Bulgaria, 1945-1949)
8. Vulko Chervenkov (Bulgaria, 1949-1954)
9. Todor Zhivkov (Bulgaria, 1954-1989)

10. Wilhelm Pieck (East Germany, 1946-1950)   
11. Walter Ulbricht (East Germany, 1950-1971)
12. Erich Honecker (East Germany, 1971-1989)   
13. Egon Krenz (East Germany, 1989)   

14. Matyas Rakosi (Hungary, 1945-1956)   
15. Ernö Gerö (Hungary, 1956)
THE SURVIVOR !16. Imre Nagy (Hungary, 1956)
OUR WINNER !17. Janos Kadar (Hungary, 1956-1988)
18. Karoly Grosz (Hungary, 1988-1989)

19. Enver Hoxha (Albania, 1944-1985)
20. Ramiz Alia (Albania, 1985-1991)   

21. Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej (Romania, 1945-1954, 1955-1965)
22. Gheorghe Apostol (Romania, 1954-1955)   
23. Nicolae Ceausescu (Romania, 1965-1989)

24. Klement Gottwald (Czechoslovakia, 1945-1953)
25. Antonin Novotny (Czechoslovakia, 1953-1968)
26. Alexander Dubcek (Czechoslovakia, 1968-1969)   
27. Gustav Husak (Czechoslovakia, 1969-1987)   
28. Milos Jakes (Czechoslovakia, 1987-1989)   

29. Iosif Dzhugashvili Stalin (USSR, 1922-1953)
30. Georgy Malenkov (USSR, 1953)
31. Nikita Khrushchev (USSR, 1953-1964)
32. Leonid Brezhnev (USSR, 1964-1982)
33. Yuri Andropov (USSR, 1982-1984)
34. Konstantin Chernenko (USSR, 1984-1985)   
35. Mikhail Gorbachev (USSR, 1985-1991)


Results:
round one: Stalin 10
round two: Hoxha 5, Ceausescu 4
round three: Ceausescu 6, Rakosi 1, Bierut 1
round four: Rakosi 5, Bierut 2, Zhivkov 2
round five: Zhivkov 3, Bierut 2, Gottwald 2, Chervenkov 1
round six: Gottwald 4, Bierut 3, Chervenkov 2
round seven: Bierut 4, Chervenkov 1
round eight: Gheorghiu-Dej 5, Chervenkov 2
round nine: Ulbricht 3, Honecker 2, Chervenkov 1
round ten: Chervenkov 5, Gomulka 1
round eleven: Novotny 3, Gerö 2, Husak 1
round twelve: Gerö 6, Gomulka 1, Brezhnev 1
round thirteen: Dimitrov 4, Brezhnev 3
round fourteen: Brezhnev 5, Chernenko 2, Alia 1, Krenz 1
round fifteen: Chernenko 7, Honecker 1
round sixteen: Honecker 6, Malenkov 2
round seventeen: Alia 3, Husak 2, Gomulka 1, Krenz 1, Malenkov 1
round eighteen: Malenkov 3, Gomulka 2, Ochab 1
round nineteen: Gomulka 5, Husak 1, Ochab 1, Khrushchev 1
round twenty: Pieck 4, Krenz 3, Husak 1
round twenty-one: Husak 7, Krenz 2
round twenty-two: Krenz 6, Khrushchev 2
round twenty-three: Jakes 3, Ochab 1, Khrushchev 1, Kadar 1
round twenty-four: Apostol 5, Kadar 1, Jaruzelski 1
round twenty-five: Ochab 6, Khrushchev 1
round twenty-six: Gierek 5, Jaruzelski 2, Khrushchev 1
round twenty-seven: Kania 4, Khrushchev 3, Jaruzelski 2, Kadar 1
round twenty-eight: Jaruzelski 3, Khrushchev 2, Kadar 2
round twenty-nine: Khrushchev 6, Kadar 1, Gorbachev 1
round thirty: Kadar 5, Andropov 2, Gorbachev 1
round thirty-one: Andropov 6, Gorbachev 1
round thirty-two: Grosz 6, Dubcek 3
round thirty-three: Gorbachev 6, Dubcek 3
round thirty-four: Dubcek 6, Nagy 3

Vote for the leader you want to eliminate. Vote is open for 24 hours+.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 02:30:05 pm by big bad fab »Logged

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big bad fab
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 05:30:29 pm »

Before my 20th century survivor and as Kalwejt Polish survivor is over, let's try this one...

Don't blame me for accents, misspellings, wrong writings, etc...

It will be a difficult choice between mostly evil men, but I've always been fascinated by the communist machinery...

VOTE IS NOT OPEN FOR THE MOMENT.

Just a few hours for comments, ideas, critics, and we'll be able to start.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 05:37:23 pm by big bad fab »Logged

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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 06:25:27 pm »
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Great idea Cheesy

I got one comment. I'm not sure we can count Rakowski, who became the first secretary when Mazowiecki already takes over government and Jaruzelski became President. Yes, he was prime minister before, but Jaruzelski was the one most important. 
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big bad fab
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 06:44:15 pm »

Great idea Cheesy

I got one comment. I'm not sure we can count Rakowski, who became the first secretary when Mazowiecki already takes over government and Jaruzelski became President. Yes, he was prime minister before, but Jaruzelski was the one most important. 
He became first sec when Kiszczak was PM, but, you're right, Jaruzelski was the real nr.1 as President.
Mmmm... not very easy...

And I wonder whether I should keep Grotewohl and add Nagy, in order to have only real nr.1.
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IDS Judicial Overlord PiT
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 08:11:01 pm »
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     Hmm, this seems like it will be quite interesting.
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 01:15:05 am »
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Stalin
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 01:21:21 am »
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Stalin

Voting not open.

Can we have all communist leaders?
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big bad fab
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 03:48:56 am »

Stalin

Voting not open.

Can we have all communist leaders?
What do you mean ?

Yugoslavia ? It would be too long, unless I don't pick anybody after 1980 or only "real" nr.1, which is very hard to do.

Other countries ? With China, it's too complex to pick only a handful of leaders (and why stop in 1989 ?) and would be too long here (but that's an idea I've got for another Survivor !).

With other countries outside the COMECON, were they really communist ? (Ethiopia, Angola, South Yemen, Afghanistan, etc)

With other countries INSIDE the COMECON, I've thought about it, but it would be too "exotic" in comparison with old Czechosloavia or East Germany (Cuba is really another debate; Vietnam also) or we wouldn't be able to have an "enlightened" view, I think (see Mongolia).
And that would put inside Vietnam and aside North Korea. And if I include Vietnam, I must put inside North Korea and I must include China, and Laos, etc.

So, I'd prefer to stick to the USSR and East European countries, unless you have another idea.
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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 05:12:38 am »
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Great idea Cheesy

I got one comment. I'm not sure we can count Rakowski, who became the first secretary when Mazowiecki already takes over government and Jaruzelski became President. Yes, he was prime minister before, but Jaruzelski was the one most important. 
He became first sec when Kiszczak was PM, but, you're right, Jaruzelski was the real nr.1 as President.
Mmmm... not very easy...

And I wonder whether I should keep Grotewohl and add Nagy, in order to have only real nr.1.


Kiszczak was obvious placeholder for little over half of a month. This was after election after round table.

Ironically, Rakowski was rather a positive figure of post-World War II history. Not because involvment in the government (at end), but heading "Polityka", the most independent press title in entire bloc, for decades. He acted positivly during March 1968 sad events.
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Хahar
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 02:50:11 pm »
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My opinion:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Bulgaria
Benin
Cambodia
China
Cuba
Czechoslovakia
Ethiopia
Germany (East)
Grenada
Hungary
Korea (North)
Laos
Mongolia
Mozambique
Nicaragua
Poland
Romania
Somalia
Soviet Union
Vietnam
Yemen (South)
Yugoslavia

I am sure I have forgotten some countries.
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 03:38:15 pm »
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Nicaragua was never communist.
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 04:11:40 pm »
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Nicaragua was never communist.

Eh, they were COMECON observers.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 05:03:19 pm »

My opinion:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Bulgaria
Benin
Cambodia
China
Cuba
Czechoslovakia
Ethiopia
Germany (East)
Grenada
Hungary
Korea (North)
Laos
Mongolia
Mozambique
Nicaragua
Poland
Romania
Somalia
Soviet Union
Vietnam
Yemen (South)
Yugoslavia

I am sure I have forgotten some countries.

If you take also allies like Somalia, you have to include Congo, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, and even Syria, Iraq, Sao Tomé...

It goes too far.

I wanted to justify my list with Soviet-imposed regimes (to justify that Yugoslavia, but also Cuba and Vietnam are excluded) and I would have included Mongolia, but Albania wouldn't fit.

So, let's stick to Warsaw Pact, a big criteria BTW !
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big bad fab
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2009, 05:26:46 pm »

Some changes and we can go:

ROUND ONE IS OPEN

Vote away !

I vote for Stalin.
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 05:35:22 pm »
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     Stalin.
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2009, 05:50:05 pm »
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Stalin
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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2009, 06:34:39 pm »
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2009, 07:40:43 pm »
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2009, 03:24:06 am »
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Stalin
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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2009, 06:40:57 am »
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Stalin, the most obvious choice!
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big bad fab
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2009, 09:46:05 am »

A unanimous first round ?

Come on, guys, please vote for this opening round !
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2009, 01:05:31 pm »
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Stalin
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2009, 01:06:07 pm »
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Stalin.
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2009, 01:38:09 pm »
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 02:18:18 pm »
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There are only two leaders on this list that could be considered overall positive, and maybe another two or three that could be considered "acceptable" (under the circumstances of the time) making most of it rather uninteresting like this round.

I also don't understand why Lenin wasn't included.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 02:21:46 pm by Now We Can See »Logged




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