Should South-Tyrol re-join Austria ?

[Хahar 🤔]

Yes, and it should rejoin Austria.

Why?

They speak High German, not Italian.

So does this mean that if this happens the 30% Italian minority, including the capital should rejoin Italy?

If they want to, yes.

You do realise what would happen if this applied world wide?

Get rid of artifical borders decided by European leaders? Especially than South Tyrol was in Austria until WW1 and Italy took it after the war.

It also would results in countless conflicts over the world. Some territories simply can't be divided. How do you something like this, for example?

That's not a problem in the South Tyrol.

I meant outside South Tyrol, of course.

So, what's your argument?

That it's a bad idea overall and it's best not to set up precedents.

National self-determination is horrible, yes, of course.

[GMantis]

Yes, and it should rejoin Austria.

Why?

They speak High German, not Italian.

So does this mean that if this happens the 30% Italian minority, including the capital should rejoin Italy?

If they want to, yes.

You do realise what would happen if this applied world wide?

Get rid of artifical borders decided by European leaders? Especially than South Tyrol was in Austria until WW1 and Italy took it after the war.

It also would results in countless conflicts over the world. Some territories simply can't be divided. How do you something like this, for example?

That's not a problem in the South Tyrol.

I meant outside South Tyrol, of course.

So, what's your argument?

That it's a bad idea overall and it's best not to set up precedents.

National self-determination is horrible, yes, of course.

National determination when there are legitimate reasons for this is one thing, but national determination just for the hell of it is usually a bad idea, as history shows.

[Хahar 🤔]

Yes, and it should rejoin Austria.

Why?

They speak High German, not Italian.

So does this mean that if this happens the 30% Italian minority, including the capital should rejoin Italy?

If they want to, yes.

You do realise what would happen if this applied world wide?

Get rid of artifical borders decided by European leaders? Especially than South Tyrol was in Austria until WW1 and Italy took it after the war.

It also would results in countless conflicts over the world. Some territories simply can't be divided. How do you something like this, for example?

That's not a problem in the South Tyrol.

I meant outside South Tyrol, of course.

So, what's your argument?

That it's a bad idea overall and it's best not to set up precedents.

National self-determination is horrible, yes, of course.

National determination when there are legitimate reasons for this is one thing, but national determination just for the hell of it is usually a bad idea, as history shows.

Where has history shown it?

[GMantis]

Yes, and it should rejoin Austria.

Why?

They speak High German, not Italian.

So does this mean that if this happens the 30% Italian minority, including the capital should rejoin Italy?

If they want to, yes.

You do realise what would happen if this applied world wide?

Get rid of artifical borders decided by European leaders? Especially than South Tyrol was in Austria until WW1 and Italy took it after the war.

It also would results in countless conflicts over the world. Some territories simply can't be divided. How do you something like this, for example?

That's not a problem in the South Tyrol.

I meant outside South Tyrol, of course.

So, what's your argument?

That it's a bad idea overall and it's best not to set up precedents.

National self-determination is horrible, yes, of course.

National determination when there are legitimate reasons for this is one thing, but national determination just for the hell of it is usually a bad idea, as history shows.

Where has history shown it?

The collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia has left almost all of their constituent republics worse off than they were before.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Neither country was sustainable without severe repression. Iraq and most countries in Africa are other examples of this.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

[Хahar 🤔]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

So? Why shouldn't the people be allowed to rejoin Austria?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Where's the "reunite with the Austrian part of Tyrol to form an independent Tyrolian nation" (double secession) option?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

So? Why shouldn't the people be allowed to rejoin Austria?

I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do so if they want. Just that it would be silly to organize a referendum for that, since South-Tyrolians have no reason to consider themselves as Austrians.

[Хahar 🤔]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

So? Why shouldn't the people be allowed to rejoin Austria?

I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do so if they want. Just that it would be silly to organize a referendum for that, since South-Tyrolians have no reason to consider themselves as Austrians.

Why wouldn't they? They don't speak Italian habitually.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

So? Why shouldn't the people be allowed to rejoin Austria?

I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do so if they want. Just that it would be silly to organize a referendum for that, since South-Tyrolians have no reason to consider themselves as Austrians.

Why wouldn't they? They don't speak Italian habitually.

Many of them do speak italian, only the northernmost part of the region is germanophone. And that doesnt make them austrians.

[Hash]

Absolutely not. At least the Trento province is an italian country.

So? Why shouldn't the people be allowed to rejoin Austria?

I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do so if they want. Just that it would be silly to organize a referendum for that, since South-Tyrolians have no reason to consider themselves as Austrians.

Why wouldn't they? They don't speak Italian habitually.

Many of them do speak italian, only the northernmost part of the region is germanophone. And that doesnt make them austrians.

Sudtirol specifically refers to the Province of Bolzano, which is 70% German.

Anyways, while speaking German in Italy doesn't make one German, it doesn't make one more Italian (apart from holding an Italian passport, but that's not my point)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sudtirol specifically refers to the Province of Bolzano, which is 70% German.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Thought we spoke about Trentino-Alto Adige. This region historically correspond to "South Tyrol".

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Being Italian or Austrian is just a question of choice. You are Italian if you want to be Italian, you are Austrian if you want to be Austrian. "Natural nations" is a myth.
Obviously, I don't know if some Sudtiroler want to become Austrian, but I doubt that the majority or even a consistent part of people do. Organizing a referendum is probably useless.

[??????????]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

[GMantis]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

The majority of the city's inhabitants would disagree.

[Hash]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

The majority of the city's inhabitants would disagree.

The majority of the province's inhabitants would agree.

[GMantis]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

The majority of the city's inhabitants would disagree.

The majority of the province's inhabitants would agree.

The majority of the country's inhabitants would disagree.

[Hash]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

The majority of the city's inhabitants would disagree.

The majority of the province's inhabitants would agree.

The majority of the country's inhabitants would disagree.

They're not the ones voting in a potential referendum anyways.

[12th Doctor]

Der Fuhrer approves of this notion.

[TeePee4Prez]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

I actually agree with you on this as well.  Amazing how much we agree on some foreign issues.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

In this case, New Orleans is La Nouvelle Orléans and New York is Niew Amsterdam.

[TeePee4Prez]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

In this case, New Orleans is La Nouvelle Orléans and New York is Niew Amsterdam.

Well, Bozen is what it should be.

1. I support ethnic nationalism wherever possible
2.  I'm part German
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.
.
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10000.  This could be another me vs. Keystone Phil argument for obvious reasons.. Kidding!
10001.  I support Slovenia's annexation of Trieste and more maritime rights in the northern Adriatic.

[minionofmidas]

And it's Bozen not Bolzano.

In this case, New Orleans is La Nouvelle Orléans and New York is Niew Amsterdam.

Uh... no. Maybe if Cajun country was still wholly French speaking and New Orleans still almost half so, and the Hudson Valley still wholly Dutch speaking and New York still almost half so, and they still called them that there, you'd have a point.

Town signs in Südtirol are German on top and Italian at the bottom, except in the Ladin speaking part where they're trilingual. (Although I couldn't find one for Bozen on the interwebs.)

[Antonio the Sixth]

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Could I ask you why ? Just because you don't like Italy ?

Istria should be italian, not the contrary.

[TeePee4Prez]

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Could I ask you why ? Just because you don't like Italy ?

Istria should be italian, not the contrary.

You probably know why I said that.  A certain poster, maybe.

Istria going Italian?  I would not support that in all seriousness.  Slovenia should be more access to the sea however.