PredictionsMock2008 Presidential Predictions - Liberalrocks (D-CA) ResultsPolls
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Date of Prediction: 2008-11-03 Version:53

Prediction Map
Liberalrocks MapPrediction Key

Confidence Map
Liberalrocks MapConfidence Key

Prediction States Won
270 |
538 |
pie
Dem306
 
Rep232
 
Ind0
 
 

Confidence States Won
270 |
538 |
pie
Dem243
 
Rep163
 
Ind0
 
Tos132
 

State Pick-ups

Gain Loss Hold Net Gain
ST CD EV ST CD EV ST CD EV
Dem+50+54000202252+54
Rep000-50-54263232-54
Ind0000000000


Prediction Score (max Score = 112)

ScoreState WinsState PercentagesCD WinsCD Percentages
93474042
piepiepiepiepie

Analysis






Prediction History
Prediction Graph


Comments History - hide

Version: 52

Obama-Biden 52%
McCain-Palin 46%
Others--- 2%

It will ofcourse be a democratic sweep of both houses of congress. I believe democrats will fall just shy of the 60 seats they so crave in the United states senate.

I see Barack Obama as being the next Jimmy Carter who also came to Washington as an agent of change and an outsider only to become overwhelmed by the demands of the job and pure idealism and naviety. I truly hope that when he is tested in a national security capacity that he passes that test for the sake of us all.


Maine- Solidly Obama despite efforts by the Mc Cain camp for the rural congressional district.

New Hampshire- This is a particuliarly hard and sad call for me to make but it appears to lean Obama. I believe he will take it by 4-6points. I had hoped the Granite State would pick their primary favorite son Mc Cain and keep their tradition of bucking the system and polls.

Vermont- Strong Obama over 60% one of his top 3 state margins.

Massachusetts-Strong Obama

Rhode Island-Strong Obama

Connecticut-Strong Obama and will be over 60%. Obama will be underpolled here.

New York-Strong Obama over 60%

Pennsylvania-Toss Up Mc Cain will close strong but it will not be enough to carry the state. We will also be seeing a Bradley effect as Murtha got in trouble for stating in Western Pennsylvania. Obama will hold onto the state by carrying the Philadelphia suburbs which the Mc Cain camp is not putting enough effort into. Mc Cain is not closing the gap in three counties Bucks Montgomery and Delaware.

New Jersey-Strong Obama

Delaware- Bidens Home State over 60% Obama.

Maryland- High African American turnout in Baltimore and the suburbs will put this democratic stronghold over 60% Obama.

Virginia- Lean Obama he will capture it by at least 3 points.
Mc Cain did not put enough ground game and effort earlier here and assumed it was not in play. Sorry Gceres you lose Virginia

West Virginia-Had looked competitive a few weeks back but now looks again to be strongly Mc Cain. My assumption is racism.

Kentucky and Tennessee- Strong Mc Cain.

Ohio- Tossup I believe a slight Bradley effect will be present in Southern and Eastern Ohio but Obama will take the state by running up margins in Cleveland Columbus and other populated parts of the state.

Indiana- Will not be as close as polls indicate but still considered a tossup. I expect Mc Cain to win by at least 2 points.

Michigan- Strong Obama he will win by similiar margin obtained by Bill Clinton in 1996.

Illinois- Obama's Home State He will get over 60% Mc Cain will be lucky to hit 40%

North Carolina- Obama will narrowly capture this state by a razors edge less then 1 %. He will win primarily because of a superior ground game and outspending Mc Cain. The senate race between Hagan and Dole also benefits Obama. Obama will actually ride Hagans coattails who will win by at least 5 points.

South Carolina- Strong Mc Cain

Georgia- Lean Mc Cain despite a good ground game and strong black turnout the state still at its core is conservative and harbors racism in many suburban parts (Murrieta) Its Mc Cains by at least 3 points.

Florida- Tossup but again superior ground operation and spending will find this bellweather in camp Obama albeit narrowly. 1-3 point win for the messiah. His totals in Miami-Dade and Broward(Fort Lauderdale) will be tough for Mc Cain to overcome. A suprise win in Tampa-St Petersburg for Obama will help him capture the state. The I-4 corridor will split with a slight Obama edge. Pan Handle to Mc Cain.

Alabama- Despite Large African American turnout the white vote will be overwhelmingly Mc Cain giving him a margin of over 60%.

Mississippi- Lean Mc Cain much of the same anaylsis as above but more blacks voting makes Mc Cains margin smaller here.

Louisiana- Strong Mc Cain similiar to Alabama but Mc Cain will not quite hit 60% here.

Arkansas- Despite being Clintons home state their is not much love here for Obama?? As polls indicate and lack of attention here by the Obama campaign and both Clintons campaigning on his behalf. Mc Cain takes it by at least 8 points.

Missouri- Tight as a razors edge but Mc Cain will hold onto it by less then 1% Remember Mc Caskill barely won in 2006 and Obama just recently started giving this battleground attention. Polling is still competitive here for Mc Cain. A democrat cant win the state simply by running up margins in St Louis and Kansas City they must even the playing field in rural counties 50/50.

Iowa- Lean Obama. Despite the Mc Cain camps recent visits which I dont understand this state has never been in play since the media created Obama's Iowa win.

Minnesota and Wisconsin- Strong Obama. Obama's back yard and their liberal past will create big margins for the 1st term senator.

North Dakota- Lean Mc Cain despite polling suggesting otherwise this state will still vote for a Republican and keep to its rural voting pattern. It will be a narrow Mc Cain win he will not get Bush's 60%.

Montana- Same as above

Nebraska- Mc Cain will win yes all 3 congressional districts but the statewide margin will be much lower then Bush's 2004 win.

Kansas- Strong Mc Cain

Oklahoma- Will be Mc Cains 2nd highest win behind Utah.

Texas- Strong Mc Cain he will win by at least 10 points.

New Mexico-Lean Obama by at least 5 points.

Colorado-Lean Obama by at least 4 points.

Wyoming- Strong Mc Cain in his top 5.

Utah- Strong Mc Cain his widest winning margin.

Idaho- Strong Mc Cain his widest margin after Utah and Oklahoma.

Nevada- Tossup could go eithier way depending on how Washoe County (Reno) votes and if Obama can run up margins in Las Vegas. I think Mc Cain will close strong here and squeek out a win of a couple hundred votes out of almost a million cast.

Arizona- Lean Mc Cain despite a last minute effort by Obama to take the state it will still go to the favorite son.

California- My home state will unfortuanately as expected vote overwhelmingly for Obama. Although he will not quite hit 60% due to the inland counties he will be around 57-59%.
The Gay Marriage Ban will fail by at least 2 points due to Obama coattails the only reason I am grateful he is winning my state.

Oregon- Strong Obama over 10 points

Washington- Strong Obama 8-11 points.

Alaska- Palins Home State Strong Mc Cain over 60%.

Hawaii- Obama's strongest state almost 70% for him here.

District of Columbia- With the highest Black population in the country and considering John Kerry received 90% of the vote here I am confident in saying Obama will receive between 91 and 96% in the district. Mc Cain will be lucky to get 5%

Obamas money and ground game will overwhelm Mc Cains on Tuesday in the battlegrounds and that will make him the 44 president.



Version: 51

Well this map is extremely hard for me to make as a Hillary Clinton supporter (PUMA) turned Mc Cain-Palin supporter. I oppose Barack Hussein Obama with every thing in me. I hate the man with a passion. I hate the idolism, I hate the empty talk, the pandering. I hate the lack of accomplishments and the lack of accountability he is held to by the media. I hate his wife. I however am not in a state of denial about where this race sits.

John Mc Cain is not running the campaign I had hoped for even though he has my full support. He has missed several opportunities to hit obama on a variety of issues and associations and has not. He has not offered a comprehensive economic package for recovery although neithier has Obama. Nonetheless Mc Cain is held to a different standard then obama as his party is still the one in power. John has let himself be defined and not put up the fight I had expected he would. He will lose this race because of it.

Obama has FINALLY acheived his double digit lead in a year that has the GOP brand tarnished it did however take him how long??... Race is the reason. I still see the polls tightening up slightly toward the final week of the campaign with Obama pulling off a 4-6 point victory over Mc Cain. I just dont see -any- possible way for Mc Cain to win unless the dialouge of the campaign is altered in a major way. Ie Terrorist Threat, a letter from Osama Bin Laden or some major gaffe and it would have to be major.

I still will proudly stand by Mc Cain and vote for him in November knowing that I voted for the best qualified candidate and a person who knows something of sacrifice. I will not throw my vote away on a write in vote.

Obama-Biden 51%
McCain-Palin 47%
Other's 2%


Sorry ConservRep, Gceres, Chica and all my other Mc Cain friends I just dont see how Mc Cain can pull it off. I desperately hope that I am wrong and am open to hearing from anyone on the reasons why I am.

If your an Obama fanatic(Wing, Five, Bonn, BushCountry, FrenchEd, Satyrday.Jlorenzen,sbane Pace and others..) and your posting something to gloat brag and rub my face in it please ignore my map. I dont need to hear it, I already know what the situation is I have to hear the media sing Obama praises on a daily basis so please move on.

I had hoped you people would feel the loss as I had to of supporting a candidate who came so close but didnt make it. I had wanted you to feel the pain and emptyness of a loss. I had wanted your hopes and work to be thrown out the window as mine had when Hillary lost. (MC CAIN-PALIN 2008)

YOU WIN.

Obama Biden- 51%
McCain Palin-47%
Other's 2%

I still believe a Bradley effect will materialize on election day. If obama goes into election day leading by 7-10points I think the above scenario will be the final result. Obama's race handicapped is still being underestimated even though he will pull off a win.

I believe due to the current economic situation Hillary Clinton would have beat Mc Cain in a larger landslide and larger % of the national popular vote because race would not have been an issue.


Version: 50

John Mc Cain-Sarah Palin: Republican Ticket
Vs.
Barack Obama-Joseph Biden: Democratic Ticket


I am thrilled with the news of John Mc Cains choice of Sarah Palin to be our next vice president of the United States. Sarah Palin is change. Barack Obama does not own that title any more. Sarah Palin is a maverick in her own right but yet has the proven ability to reach across party lines and work with democrats for compromise. Sarah has a wonderful story and strong values she will bring to the office. Her youth energy and female perspective will be a breath of fresh air. Let the Democrats challenge her experience they nominated Obama as the top of THEIR ticket. As a former Hillary Clinton supporter (male) I believe Palin will have appeal to Clinton democrats not just because she is a fellow woman but because of the type of maverick republican she is and although a conservative has been known to take moderate positions on social issues abortion excluding. Sarah is dynamic and I have been following her for some time now and as a former democrat I am impressed she is strong intelligent and exciting! For me she is no Hillary Clinton but yet posseses that same drive and is quite unique in her own right. I honestly do hope the democrats underestimate her this year at their own harm. I had wanted John Mc Cain to pick her but always thought she was a dark horse candidate and that he would go with someone dull like Pawlenty or even worse Mitt Romney.

Clinton voters will go to Palin they would have had reservations about Romney.



Mc Cain/Palin (R) 50%
Obama/ Biden (D) 47%
Mc Kinney/Clemente (G) 1%
Barr/Root (L) 1%
Nader and others 1%

While Mc Cain ofcourse will not carry a majority of women voters he will make inroads sufficient enough to carry the day. He will carry male voters by double digits. Obama will carry over 90% of the African American vote and carry the youth vote by double digits. Palin will help Mc Cains image as a maverick especially with females but even with independent male voters and the male voters who voted for Hillary Clinton such as myself.



Version: 49

John Mc Cain-Sarah Palin: Republican Ticket
Vs.
Barack Obama-Joseph Biden: Democratic Ticket


I am thrilled with the news of John Mc Cains choice of Sarah Palin to be our next vice president of the United States. Sarah Palin is change. Barack Obama does not own that title any more. Sarah Palin is a maverick in her own right but yet has the proven ability to reach across party lines and work with democrats for compromise. Sarah has a wonderful story and strong values she will bring to the office. Her youth energy and female perspective will be a breath of fresh air. Let the Democrats challenge her experience they nominated Obama as the top of THEIR ticket. As a former Hillary Clinton supporter (male) I believe Palin will have appeal to Clinton democrats not just because she is a fellow woman but because of the type of maverick republican she is and although a conservative has been known to take moderate positions on social issues abortion excluding. Sarah is dynamic and I have been following her for some time now and as a former democrat I am impressed she is strong intelligent and exciting! For me she is no Hillary Clinton but yet posseses that same drive and is quite unique in her own right. I honestly do hope the democrats underestimate her this year at their own harm. I had wanted John Mc Cain to pick her but always thought she was a dark horse candidate and that he would go with someone dull like Pawlenty or even worse Mitt Romney.

Clinton voters will go to Palin they would have had reservations about Romney.



Mc Cain/Palin (R) 50%
Obama/ Biden (D) 47%
Mc Kinney/Clemente (G) 1%
Barr/Root (L) 1%
Nader and others 1%

While Mc Cain ofcourse will not carry a majority of women voters he will make inroads sufficient enough to carry the day. He will carry male voters by double digits. Obama will carry over 90% of the African American vote and carry the youth vote by double digits. Palin will help Mc Cains image as a maverick especially with females but even with independent male voters and the male voters who voted for Hillary Clinton such as myself.


Version: 48

The idolism displayed tonight and the empty promises are some of the many reasons I oppose Barack Obama.

I donated a large sum of money tonight to the Mc Cain campaign and will work my heart out for him this fall.


Version: 47

Obama is still going to get his ass kicked!!

Miss Hillary Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!


Hillary 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Version: 46

How embarrasing for the rock star messiah to be slipping in the polls right before his lovefest in Denver. Shouldnt he be ahead going into the convention and then be able to build upon his numbers build it into a bounce? LOL Well if anything hes crashing leading up to the sham of an event. Reuters/Zogby has Mc Cain up by 5 nationally and in all recent polls in the major Battlegrounds of Florida Missouri Ohio Virginia Colorado Mc Cain is ahead and Obama is holding onto a mere 1 point lead in New Hampshire. With a possible Bradley effect even thats questionable! as these polls may understate Mc Cain he could be up by an extra point or two if one factors in a possible Bradley effect.

PUMA- Go Mc keep hitting him hard- Hit him where Hillary couldnt! As another poster put it- Obama is a weak ass candidate. Mc Cains ads will continue to reveal the real obama! Also hidden in these numbers are over 20% of the 18 million Hillary Clintons voters (in every recent poll) such as myself. We will not support the unqualified cheap smooth talker for the highest office in the land. We will not support his past connections and affiliations or his arrogance.

If I had to guess who the vps are going to be-

John Sydney Mc Cain- 1.Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, 2. Tim Pawlenty, 3.Eric Cantor 4. Rob Portman. Long shots are Joe Lieberman or Sarah Palin

Barack Hussein Obama- 1. Joe Biden 2. Bill Richardson 3. Chet Edwards of Texas (Pelosi wants him for some reason)
Every Puma knows that Hillary Clinton was never being fully vetted as he hates her and we hate him!



Version: 45

How embarrasing for the rock star messiah to be slipping in the polls right before his lovefest in Denver. Shouldnt he be ahead going into the convention and then be able to build upon his numbers build it into a bounce? LOL Well if anything hes crashing leading up to the sham of an event. Reuters/Zogby has Mc Cain up by 5 nationally and in all recent polls in the major Battlegrounds of Florida Missouri Ohio Virginia Colorado Mc Cain is ahead and Obama is holding onto a mere 1 point lead in New Hampshire. With a possible Bradley effect even thats questionable! as these polls may understate Mc Cain he could be up by an extra point or two if one factors in a possible Bradley effect.

PUMA- Go Mc keep hitting him hard- Hit him where Hillary couldnt! As another poster put it- Obama is a weak ass candidate. Mc Cains ads will continue to reveal the real obama! Also hidden in these numbers are over 20% of the 18 million Hillary Clintons voters (in every recent poll) such as myself. We will not support the unqualified cheap smooth talker for the highest office in the land. We will not support his past connections and affiliations or his arrogance.

If I had to guess who the vps are going to be-

John Sydney Mc Cain- 1.Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, 2. Tim Pawlenty, 3.Eric Cantor 4. Rob Portman. Long shots are Joe Lieberman or Sarah Palin

Barack Hussein Obama- 1. Tim Kaine 2. Evan Bayh 3. Joe Biden
Every Puma knows that Hillary Clinton was never being fully vetted as he hates her and we hate him! Long Shots are he wont have the guts to offer up Kathleen Sebelius or Claire Mc Caskill.


Version: 44

www.politico.com

"7 worrisome signs for obama"


Version: 42

The question now is are the Mc Cain "celebrity" ads having an effect on defining Obama to the electorate? Democrats in his own party are quietly grumbling that he isnt hitting back at Mc Cain strong enough. Sound Familiar?...

This should not be a close race. This is definetly obamas race to lose. He should be up by double digits considering the fact that most of the media is in the bag for him.


Version: 41

Mc Cain vs Obama.

Mc Cain 50%
Obama 48%
Others 2%

By the time november rolls around obama will be wearing the elite title of inexperienced. A summer of attacks on Michelle Obama's racial views and college thesis will certaintly not help in middle america and the south. Mc Cain will have an opportunity to shine and contrast his experience to that of the first term Illinois senator. Mc Cain will put together a unique coalition of voters not seen since the so called reagan democrat. Independents will split between the two almost evenly with a slight Mc Cain edge and Mc Cain will pick up over 10% of registered democrats.

Michigan will be the new Florida and Ohio for 2008. As Mc Cain will win those states comfortably as Obama has confirmed a strategy that will not center around them. Virginia will prove to be closer then 2004 but still slightly out of Obama's grasp due to its southern element and western rural virginia. He will make large gains in Northern Virginia and some suburban areas but again not enough to offset the above stated areas.

Mc Cains campaign plans to target the counties and states that Hillary Clinton did well in. They plan to "win where hillary won"


Version: 40

Mc Cain Vs. Obama.

Mc Cain 50%
Obama 47%
Barr 1%
Nader 1%
Others 1%

Closer popular vote scenario and slight pickup for Obama--although in the end I feel Colorado will go to Mc Cain by a couple of points and New Mexico will be Obama's narrowly perhaps. The battlegrounds will be the southwest and industrial mid-western states. Mc Cain is polling better then expected in both Ohio and Michigan and even making Pennsylvania competitive! This should not be the case as 2 of the 3 states voted for Kerry Gore and Bill Clinton. Ohio was narrow in 2004 one would think it should be leaning democratic at this point. Obama's numbers have been strong in the southwest but now have deteriorated. He had been leading in New Mexico and Nevada until recently---proves that these states will be more difficult for him to win then his camp would like to admit. They claim to be opening up new battlegrounds I see old battlegrounds that should be leaning in the democratic column now tilting republican.


Version: 39

Mc Cain vs Obama.

Mc Cain 50%
Obama 46%
Nader 2%
Barr 1%

Mc Cain runs a strong national security campaign emphasis on experience and his service to the country. Obama runs on the war in iraq.He also emphasises his commitment to the economy but his experience is questioned by Mc Cain and many in the Washington establishment. People feel safer at the end of the day with a Mc Cain presidency despite opposition to the war. The ever talked about Bradley effect will be present in many states leading up to the november vote, particularily Pennsylvania which Mc Cain wins under 1% or 50,0000 votes. Same holds true of Michigan which will before the vote will be expected to go to obama. Cross over voting is also a factor but will not be covered by the media due to other campaign issues.


Version: 38

Mc Cain/ Maine Senator Olympia Snowe

Vs.

Obama/Reverend Jeremiah Wright-



Obama's Reverend will not shut up. He joked about Obama picking him for the vice presidential spot in a defiant press conference today. This is what one such scenario might look like, perhaps Im being far too kind huh?? I was in the mood for a nutty scenario just one of those days.

Keep Talking Reverend, Keep Talking....

Mc Cain 54%
Obama 41%
Nader 4%
Others 1%


Version: 37

Hillary Clinton/ Indiana Senator Evan Bayh

vs.

John Mc Cain/ Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour


Clinton 51%
Mc Cain 47%

Others 2%

Hillary runs with a strong superior economic platform reaching out to blue collar reagan democrats in the upper mid west swing states. Hillary attacks Mc Cain unrelentlessly and makes his temper and past emotional outbursts an issue in the campaign. She effectively raises doubts about his age and emotional preparedness. Mc Cain paints her as polarizing and out of touch. Hillary speaks to the issues better and more throughly. She is also successfully able to compare and link Mc Cain to Bush and his failed policies threw an aggressive campaign.


Version: 36

Clinton / Oregon Governor Ted Kulongoski

Vs.

Mc Cain / Florida Governor Charlie Crist

Clinton 49%
Mc Cain 48%
Others 3%


Clinton runs an economic themed campaign highlighting the failed Bush economy and hits hard in the upper midwest. She paints Mc Cain as out of touch with with the recession and his temper comes to boil during the campaign and is used against him affectively and negatively by the Clinton campaign they question his ability to handle dangerous situations that may require a cool calm head. Mc Cain runs on experience but doesnt get past the central issue the economy. Mc Cain hits Clinton on her many negatives and past untruthful statements. Clinton continues to tie Mc Cain to Bush and his negatives.

This scenario shows a very tight race with Clinton vs Mc Cain With Crist on the ticket he secures the battleground of Florida for Mc Cain and makes the contest very tight. Recent polling in Florida has showed it to be competitive, in a Clinton/Mc Cain race. Ted Kulongoski on Clintons ticket helps secure the Pacific Northwest for Clinton. He is not the best choice for a running mate which this scenario shows as Ive have heard his name further down on the list. My number 1 choice for a Clinton running mate would be Retired General Wesley Clark I think he would help Clinton more with independents and without Crist on the Republican ticket would put Florida back into play. All toss ups in this scenario are won by less then one point. The closest states being Wisconsin Iowa and New Mexico. Despite current polling I think Wisconsin will remain narrowly democratic as it has since 1988. Many recent democrats to run for president were behind in Wisconsin at some point but narrowly won it in the end. It could go eithier way as always. New Mexico could go to Clinton as well but in this scenario I have chosen to give it to Mc Cain by a razors edge. Iowa as well although at this point I think Mc Cain has the edge there.


Version: 35

Hillary Clinton/ Ret General Wesley Clark

Vs.

John Mc Cain/ Tim Pawlenty Gov Minnesota.

Clinton 50%
Mc Cain 48%
Other 2%

Clinton runs on a strong economic message and a plan for many of the rust belt states that have lost jobs. Mc Cain is seen as a hero but lacking in a plan to tackle the troubled economy. General Clark is a great addition to her ticket with his decorated service to the country and in foreign policy would make an excellent vice president. Tim Pawlenty provides Mc Cain some much needed youth but comes from a state that is likely to go to eithier democrat in the fall. He could help make Wisconsin competitive for Mc Cain which I show in this version.

If Hillary were to lose Florida she would need to carry eithier Oregon or Iowa to win the electoral vote. Despite what the polls show she may win all three they all have voted democrat in the last few cycles. Florida in 1996 and (2000 lol) Iowa 1996/ 2000 and Oregon 1996/ 2000 and 2004 I do see a flip as very possible at the present time.


Version: 34

Clinton/ Bayh

Vs.

Mc Cain/Sanford

Hillary Clinton runs on a strong economic message that resonates in the mid-western battleground states with the active support of her running mate Evan Bayh she narrowly carries Indiana. Mc Cain refuses to confront economic issues head on which is Hillary Clintons strongest issue. The economy continues to worsen as the election draws near.

Clinton 50%
Mc Cain 48%
Nader 1%
others 1%


Version: 33

Mc Cain vs Obama.

Mc Cain 53%
Obama 45%
Others 2%

A Map and win for Mc Cain which may be similiar to George Bush Sr's win in 1988 against Dukakis whom they used the infamous Willie Horton ad on. Which with the recent Rev Wright controversy it will be interesting seeing what the republicans will pull out of their hats to run against obama. They will not have to censor there attacks like the Clinton campaign running against obama in the same party. I dont see middle america voting for obama after such controversy and yet we have only begun to see what Barack Obama is all about, Im sure the republicans will make sure America is well "informed" in the fall if given the chance to run against him. I see a campaign similiar to 1988 with Obama taking a few more large states then Micheal Dukakis did but the popular vote being closer to the 1988 totals. Mc Cain will win big with independents and a signifigant percentage of Hillary Clinton supporters who cant stand the thought of Barack Obama in the white house over the other two better experienced candidates.


Version: 32

Obama vs. Mc Cain.

John Mc Cain has said he will go after democratic states and try to turn them republican after the polarizing Bush and his limited electoral strategy. This map is possibly a best case scenario for him .

If Mc Cain can hit Obama on lack of experience, national security prepardness, and paint him as a movement that doesnt represent mainstream middle america he will be successful. He must paint him as an out of touch liberal with too many unknowns...
To this electoral extent proably not. I just thought I would throw a map together to reflect my thought. I do think contrary to some opinions that Hillary Clinton would fight back and run on the economic issues more so then iraq war issues and in this economic year I think that is the better of the two issues to run on Bread and Butter baby! Many are against the war but they are also against not having enough money in there bank accounts and that issue hits home harder! Before I get hit with this or that state is too strong on my map understand, at this point early on anyway I dont think he would win with such a spread. This is just a what if,
Anything is possibly though as this race has shown.

Mc Cain 52%
Obama 46%
others 2%
I decided not to factor in the vice presidential influence on this map.


Version: 31

Ok My turn the states in Red are the states Im seen in my 26 years of awesome living.

Oregon and Washington: I have driven from my home in los angeles all the way up the coast. for any of you west coasters I highly recommend it as the coast is beautiful Im a beach guy all the way California's coast is where its at baby!
Portland and Seattle are great party cities and very liberal!

Hawaii: 2 Trips with family so I couldnt get too crazy.

Nevada: Ive been to Las Vegas I drive from los angeles at least twice a year.

Arizona: Lake Havasu, Phoenix and Tucson -more socially liberal then I expected.

Idaho/Utah I have driven threw Utah and I have an aunt and uncle who live in Idaho. The only liberals there proably?

Colorado: Denver Aspen Vale

New Mexico: Albequerque and Santa Fe

Texas: Dallas I have a Republican uncle who lives there, Its an awful place lol. Would like to see Austin though,

Louisiana: New Orleans pre-Katrina partied in the French Quarter baby!! woo hoo

Florida: Fort Lauderdale Orlando Miami Key West cool state but too humid for me.

Missouri: St Louis/St Louis County Not a trip I want to remember lol

Illinois: Chicago twice cool city great scene.

Washington DC / Arlington Virginia: I had a cousin I stayed with there so I could see the capital she lives in Florida now and makes me look like a conservative she is sooo liberal.

New York City/ New Jersey LOVE IT Cant get enough of that city and the tri-state area, I have not been into New England that is where I would like to venture next Massachusetts Connecticut Rhode Island Maine... Would also Like to see Philadelphia.


Version: 30

This scenario demostrates how a democrat needs to likely carry eithier Michigan or Florida in the general election in order to win. They can win without them ofcourse but it is highly unlikely as these are large important states and a democrat needs to carry at least one in order to win.


The above map represents both democrats although Im inclined to think Obama would not pull off Arkansas and Ohio is even a stretch but in this scenario lets say that he somehow did.Im confident that Michigan will vote democratic in the fall this is just a what if scenario demostrating how important the two states are.


Whatever compromise must be made on the part of the Clinton and Obama campaigns is necessary as we can not refuse to recognize both these states. Both campaigns should agree upon some course of action to recognize these states whatever is considered fair for both campaigns you can not ignore these battleground states.


Version: 29

Revised Edition
John Mc Cain (AZ)and Olympia Snowe(ME) --- Republican Ticket
Barack Obama(IL/HI) and Tim Kaine (Va) --- Democratic Ticket


In this scenario Mc Cain beats Obama in the electoral college. Obama wins the popular vote by a substantial margin A small amount of conservatives shift back to Mc Cain giving him razor thin wins in the critical toss ups states.

Mc Cain beats Obama with voters who feel Obama is weak on foreign policy. The republicans run a smear campaign via independent groups claiming Obama will be weak on terrorism and openly accuse his wife of being anti american and out of the main stream. Republicans proceed to attack the image and past political activities of Michelle Obama threw independent swift boat type groups. This keeps Barack on defense As he continues to keep to his pledge of running a Clean Honest and non-negative campaign. Mc Cain had pledged the same, the attacking groups are not affiliated with his campaign but help elect him none the less

Barack H. runs up large totals in Democratic states and makes some of the tossup democratic states from 2004 lean democratic with a strong popular vote. John Mc Cain holds republican by smaller margins then 2000 and 2004 and narrowly carries toss ups as a direct result of the negative campaign advertising and continued gaffes and defense of Michelle Obama and scrutiny from conservatives.

Olympia Snowe helps Mc Cain compete with Obama with independents and women. This solidify's Mc Cains older married woman vote and he picks up a very small, but critical percentage of former Hillary Clinton democrats.

Mc Cain does well in upper New England with Olympia Snowe's help and his popularity from the primaries although Maine is tight he narrowly wins one congressional district. and New Hampshire by a couple of points. The critical close states are Colorado and New Mexico and they become the Florida of 2008 Mc Cain keeps them, narrowly winning independents and has home region appeal as a maverick westerner.

Polls leading up to the election show obama ahead by 2-3points and exit polls are wrong in just a few critical states.



John Mc Cain (R) 47% ---President Elected
Barack Obama (D) 49%
Ralph Nader (I) 3%
Other parties 1%





Version: 28

MC Cain vs Obama Landslide Scenario

John Mc Cain/ Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX)54%
Barack Obama/ Tim Kaine (Va)44%
Other minor candidates 2%

After the republican attack machine, fueled by Karl Rove has dug into Obama's past and scared many independents and moderate portions of the electorate, when much becomes known of obama's past this will also rally on the fence conservatives building a broad majority voteing for Mc Cain.

Proably WONT be a landslide but there are many months to go until the general election? Hillary is not out of this race yet ! ??

Im not sure what to do with my vote in November if Barack H. Obama is the democratic nominee I will not be voteing for him Im not sure if Ill do a write in or vote for Mc Cain?

I dont vote for American Idol, I vote for president!
Barack may win a nomination but his ideas are not superior to the better qualified candidates running Clinton and Mc Cain! He is not prepared to lead, protect and defend this great nation.


Version: 27

Obama Vs Mc Cain

In this scenario Mc Cain beats Obama in the electoral college. Obama wins the popular vote by a substantial margin! Mc Cain may have won the popular vote narrowly had conservatives not formed a third party run. The conservative party runs stronger until the closing days of the campaign when its clear Obama is ahead in the swing states by razor thin margins. A small amount of conservatives shift back to Mc Cain giving him razor thin wins in the critical toss ups states.

Mc Cain beats Obama with voters who feel Obama is weak on foreign policy. The republicans run a smear campaign via independent groups claiming Obama will be weak on terrorism and openly accuse his wife of being anti american and out of the main stream. Republicans proceed to attack the image and past political activities of Michelle Obama threw independent swift boat type groups. This keeps Barack on defense As he continues to keep to his pledge of running a Clean Honest and non-negative campaign. Mc Cain had pledged the same, the attacking groups are not affiliated with his campaign but help elect him none the less

Barack runs up large totals in Democratic states and makes some of the tossup democratic states from 2004 lean democratic with a strong popular vote. The republican states are less strong due the running of a conservative third party.
So much for Obama mania in the electoral college.


John Mc Cain (R) 45% ---President Elected
Barack Obama (D) 49%
Conservative Party 4%
Other votes 2%

4 republican electors defect from Mc Cain and cast ballots for the conservative party out of protest of Mc Cain!! Mike Huckabee receives one elector from Arkansas.


Version: 26

Analysis Below


Version: 25

Mc Cain vs Obama

Mc Cain 50%
Obama 48%
Others 2%

This scenario assumes no credible third party threats conservative or liberal


Version: 24

Clinton/Obama
vs.
Mc Cain/Huckabee


Clinton 49%
Mc Cain 47%
Paul 3%
others 1%

Both parties united with major nominee runner ups. The democrats seem to have the upper hand there. Mc Cain has problems with his base as he appears to flip flop from moderate to conservative masks and appears to pander to both. Huckabee is a loose cannon running mate hurting Mc Cain with women which flock to Clinton with excitement that Obama helps ignite.The anti-Clinton vote is present, just as the anti-Bush vote was in 2004 which keeps the republican base states strong for Mc Cain. Mc Cains age while not brought up by Clinton is an issue raised by the media.....

States won under one point
Nevada
Ohio
New Mexico
Wisconsin
Colorado


All other toss ups won by 1-3pts
Lean States 4-6
Strong 8 and up


Version: 23

Hillary Clinton/ Retired General Wesley Clark

Vs

John Mc Cain/ Haley Barbour

Hillary may be forced into selecting Obama to unite the party if however she does not I think the above selection could be very wise. Other wise choices would be Strickland Ohio or Bayh of Indiana. Wes Clark would offer valued foreign policy experience and a military presence to the ticket and is moderate and somewhat likeable? I could see a conservative third party movement possibly but it would not get more than about 5 percent as conservatives would see it helping Hillary

Hillary 48%
Mc Cain 47%
Conservative Third Party 4%
Other Parties 1%

To my more idealistic democratic friends sorry this one is gonna be another razor ends election similiar to 2000/2004
But We can do it We must properly define grandpa Mc Cain and fight on! Several states are going to be extremely close such as New Mexico Ohio Iowa Nevada which will be won with under 1 percentage point We can do this it is going to take a fight


Version: 22

Obama vs Romney

Im aware im being kind to Mr Romney in this scenario.

Obama 50%
Romney 45%
Paul 4%
others 1%
Not much of analysis is needed here as most democrats and independents agree Romney is the weakest candidate running but he can still buy some states to carry. flip flop around the country campaigning, hey he can move faster than Bob Dole


Version: 21

MC Cain vs Obama

At present time both Clinton and Obama are having difficulties in the polls against John Mc Cain partly because Mc Cain is still viewed as a maverick and has little negatives he has not been called out on his votes or to address issues relevant to the general election thus is riding high. I think he would trounce Obama even more so than Clinton on experience and national security readiness. He would also run on the ready to lead platform and his years of service to his country which would be tough for Obama to counter. Obama also does not have the ability to go negative and lacks big time in the strategy department he is new to politics and will have a lot to learn unfortunately on the campaign trail is not the time.

Mc Cain 50%
Obama 46%
Paul 3%
others 1%


Version: 20

Clinton Vs Mc Cain

Mc Cain carries the popular vote in this scenario?

MC Cain 47%
Clinton 47%
Paul 4%
Other 2%


Version: 19

Hillary Vs Romney

Hillary decides in order to unite her party she MUST go with Barack Obama as her running mate despite the risk of two minorities on a ticket. She must solidify the African American and youth vote she was weaker with in the primaries. She polls very strong with women and moderates. She goes on to carry independents in the general election with a strong economic message in a turbulent economic year.

Romney decides to go with Huckabee his chief opponent in the primaries once Mc Cain looses momentum and Giulani fails to perform well on super tuesday. Romney choice Huckabee to counter act his negative in regards to mormonism and keep the evangelical base. The general election as many expect is a complete disaster for him. He is seen as a plastic politician and Clinton successfully challenges his positions at every opportunity keeping him on defense. Huckabee is also a loose canon attempting to push the ticket to the far right socially
The vice presidential debate is a slam dunk for Obama

Romney is seen as unreliable and flip flop con artist. His record in Massachusetts is told as are his favorables in his so called second home state. Romney fails by double digits to carry his so called two home states Michigan and Massachusetts
He does well in base states with Huckabee's help but fails to carry any large tossups.

America goes on to elect the first Woman and African american ticket and the primaries are a distant memory

Paul running as an independent takes votes from Romney but Clinton still would win without his run.

Clinton/Obama 50%
Romney/Huckabee 42%
Paul/ 7%
greens and other 1%


Version: 17

Huckabee's Massive Mistake !!


Version: 16

Clinton/Obama
vs
Mc Cain/Romney
Vs
Bloomberg/Hagel

This race is very tight The closes states are of course Ohio which is razor thin Virginia and New Hampshire are suprises as there are expected to go to the loosing parties do to conventional thought. The spoiler is Bloomberg even though he does less than expected. Obama on the ticket helps unify the party and Clintons base among the younger generation and helps her compete with Mc Cain and the independents. Bloomberg brings in the anti establishment vote

Clinton 44%
Mc Cain 43%
Bloomberg 11%
others 2%

I think any third party run by a moderate or conservative leaning candidate helps Clinton. If she is the nominee I believe there will be an anti establishment Candidate that will run that will appeal to independents and thus give her a victory


Version: 15

Obama vs Mc Cain updated from my previous map I have given Mc Cain Maine as there are many independent voters up there

John Mc Cain (rep) 51%
Barack Obama (dem) 47%
Others 2%


For my scenario commentary please see my previous map


Version: 14

" 2004 is not a blueprint for all elections in the future"

John Mc Cain
Vs.
Barack Obama (aka the rockstar)

Mc Cain puts together a winning coalition of republicans and split democrats unhappy with an inexperienced nominee. He knocks obama out of the water in the debates when the issue of experience and foreign policy arise. When Obama's real and true platform is revealed it puts many of the republican leaning independents back in Mc Cains column. Both men run decent campaigns but Mc Cain is seen as the safer option in a post 9-11 world and defeats Obama by one point more than Bush defeated Kerry in 2004

Mc Cain 51%
Obama 47%

others 2%

This scenario assumes no one third party gets more than 1% which I know appears unlikely with Bloomberg/Paul/Nunn/Hagel
looming. with 4 percent between mc cain and obama the third party in my view would have to do very well to cut into mc cains support as a percentage of his support would come from independents that might vote for a third party. Obama looses his primary coalition of independents primarily over his lack of foreign policy and domestic record experience and national security concerns raised successfully by Mc Cain who has been in the senate for over 20 years depite the call for change people remain concerned for there security


Version: 13

Ron Paul is a crazy nut.

That being said I am too for making this map! Lol all in fun
Best case scenario for a third party run which I do feel in my gut will happen. It will be interesting to see how much more money he can raise and if he'll turn into a Perot or do even better and actually carry states. I dont think he would carry states in all actuality but if he did he would draw strength from the west and plains with his libertarian anti government/establishment views enough to spoil the republican vote? Will see

Hillary Clinton 41%
Mike Huckabee 33%
Ron Paul 25%
Others 1%

Happy New Year Hillary 2008!!


Version: 11

A Holiday Gift to my fellow Democrats:

Clinton-Obama 52%
Romney-Gingrich 43%
Paul-Hagel 4%
Other parties 1%

In this scenario there is an attempt to unite both parties. Clinton chooses Obama with the idea he can bring new ideas and a fresh face to the table with her experience it seems to balance out the ticket. She does this with great fear of a double minority ticket and the unlikeability factor it is a major risk but she feels it can work. The republican party is horribly divided among three candidates. MC Cain Romney and Huckabee Romney barely edges Huckabee for the nomination by just 15 extra delegates to win. There is major uprest and the convention is chaos. In an attempt to find someone that could possibly pull the party together, a major known leader he chooses Newt Gingrich as his running mate trying to pull the party together what he doesnt bargin for is how unliked Newt is with the general electorate. The race quickly turns into his running mates baggage before his eyes. Clinton is able capitalize on this with Obama playing Mr Nice Guy on the side. Clinton paints Romney as inexperienced and indecisive Newt pulls the ticket to the right on many social issues. In the end its a landslide despite the fact there are two minorities on the democratic ticket.

I know this is just a dream so analyze accordingly just a holiday gift to all my dem friends and to my republican friends sometimes you dont always get what you want at the Holidays *President Hillary Rodham Clinton*


Version: 10

A lookback at 1976

Here's what the race of 1976 would look like with the current electoral vote if it were held today. Notice the vast differences in the electoral patterns and the closeness of the race (hopefully I have most of this correct if not im sorry look it up on the atlas) If President Ford had won Ohio and Wisconsin there would have been no President Carter and possibly no President... I have a great deal of respect for Mr Ford and his wife who became Californians after he left office. He was the last truly moderate Republican President. It was revealed by close sources at the time and after his death that he was very concerned as to the direction of his party and the influence of the christian right and such leaders as Falwell Robertson and others. He reflected and came to the conclusion had he won the 1976 he would have kept his party socially moderate and fiscally conservative and not taken the party to the neo conservative status it occupies today. These were his comments not mine. Mr Ford in later years became very socially moderate and came to support the struggle for gay rights for which I am greatful. I cant help but wonder had he won this race How would all that been affected and where would politics be today?


Version: 9

Hillary Rodham Clinton Vs Willard Mitt Romney

Updated Slaughtering for Romney based on popular request I have decided Virginia is a toss up and possible win for dems I still can not add any other states as I still believe Republicans would prevail narrowly


Version: 8

Anyone wanna play guess the candidates, No Hillary is not on the ballot


Version: 7

Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney

I believe obama has some great ideas for this country and has his heart in the right place but i also think he would get trounced by any republican in the general election. I dont think he has the skill and calculation to fight against the republican attack machine. This is why I believe Hillary is more electable. Barack may not be as polarizing but the republicans would pounce on him before he even knew what hit him. The above scenario is against in my view the weakest republican in the field. If the nominee were Guiliani or Mc Cain I think they pick up Wisconsin and Oregon


Version: 6

Ohio Ohio Ohio who needs ohio when you got Arkansas. Hillary Rodham Clinton vs any one besides Huckabee who I believe would carry Arkansas. Although, I believe that she will carry more battleground states I have given her the bare minimum to prove an electoral edge I believe is present. Above are all the states won by both Al Gore (who should be laughing at the people who voted against him) and John Kerry in 2000 and 2004 with just the addition of Arkansas to make 270 As I indicated before I believe she will carry at least a few more states than this map shows.


Version: 5

Hillary Rodham Clinton vs Mike Huckabee in this scenario Clinton would loose her homestate of Arkansas. I believe Huckabee would carry Iowa and Missouri with many hometown evangelical voters tipping those states I believe he would have a hard time in the Pacific and parts of the south west as many voters out there remain very socially moderate and independent thinking and prefer to keep church and state limited At this point Ohio remains a toss up as always but i believe at the end of the Day Hillary will be successful in painting Huckabee as out of touch with the main stream. He will attempt to run on the same Christian values as Bush Cheney but lack of experience against the better suited Clinton will be his ultimate downfall along with some ultra conservative views on social issues Pop vote 50 /48 Clinton

Ohio 50/48 Clinton


Version: 4

George W Bush is not restricted by term limits and decides to run for a third term. He wins texas by less than one point. Indiana South Carolina and even Mississippi are close. Despite the displacement of African American voters his approval rating in Louisiana sucks so im giving it to the dems South Dakota is the dems closest state win by under 1000-votes. Damn i hate this man!! lol


Version: 3

I still may need to subtract a few states
In this scenario George W Bush is not restricted by term limits and decides to run for a third term as president against any of the top leading democrats. This is not an october suprise but a november feast for democrats!

Updated: I have added a few more states into the democratic Any other states i should add? This is fun I HATE him!!


Version: 2

Hillary Clinton is elected with 50 percent of the popular vote and a solid strong lead in the electoral vote despite early perceptions of being a polarizing figure and being unelectable. The republican ticket is hurt by the incumbent president and his failed policies and his endorsement. She goes on to become the first female president of the united states.


Version: 1

Hillary Clinton is elected the next president of the United States with 50 percent of the national popular vote and a solid lead in the electoral college despite perceptions of being a polarizing unelectable candidate and will go on to be the First Female President of the United States


Version History


Member Comments
 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-03 @ 23:37:18
I too thought McCain would prevail in North Carolina, but I'm not sure now with the early voting - as apparently it's been huge & mostly Democrat.
It's completely lineball though, & on '04 results it's a 14% swing, so even if Obama doesn't win it, he has done well in a once reliably Red state.


Last Edit: 2008-11-03 @ 23:46:05
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-03 @ 23:44:52
You may very well be right but todays polls all point toward him taking a lead again. I think that rural white voters will put him over the top but again with early voting (which mainly was black) and the larger cities Raleigh Charlotte Wake Forest it will be close eithier way. I wont be sad to see Elizabeth Dole go even as a new republican. She was useless and always caved to party demands no backbone. The "godless" ad was really in poor taste as Hagan is a good religious woman.prediction Map

 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-03 @ 23:48:05
I used to be a bit of a fan of Elizabeth Dole, until I went off the Rpublicans some time ago.
& to think she ran for the Presidency in 00 wasn't it?
How the mighty have fallen.
I still wouldn't be surprised if she scraped in.
But either way it's close.
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-03 @ 23:51:49
What's this R behind your name now?
urgh.
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 By: Tokar (D-VA) 2008-11-03 @ 23:53:28
If Obama turns around everything will you still be anti-Obama?

By everything I mean...
-get out of the wars
-turn around the market
-turn around the housing market
-turn around the national debt
-improve domestic spending on social services
-improve our standing around the globe
-improve the value of the dollar
-reduce our dependence on foreign oil
-make it easier to get health insurance and make it cheaper
etc. etc.
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 By: Liberallover (-NY) 2008-11-03 @ 23:58:45
Congratulations Rocks... I hope you all find yourselves out there in the wilderness and come back as the party of TR and the party of Lincoln. Make it compelling enough and maybe I will join you (after Obama's terms are up).prediction Map

 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-03 @ 23:59:10
Tokar---HE WONT. He will be a Black Jimmy Carter.

By your definition of "turning everything around" then yes I will still be anti-Obama as you are clearly one of his followers.

Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 00:01:30
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 00:00:07
Oh go shove it liberallover.prediction Map

 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 00:05:33
Bless.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 00:10:31
Demboy what I have found this season is that I agree with the republicans more then 50% of the time particuliarly on taxes and MY money being re-distributed. I work hard I dont need to pay for the bums on the street or someone who is making minimum wage. We dont need to spend more on social programs in the middle of a recession nor do we need to tax small buisness who will be helping us rev up the economy again.I also dont agree with Obama's naviety in foreign policy. So I would say I proably agree with republicans at least 60 % of the time if not closer to 70% of the time.

Im sorry I want out of the Pelosi-Obama-Dean party. A great way to oppose them is to join the republicans.



Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 00:12:16
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 02:38:30
What has Pelosi done that's got you so mad with her?
I don't understand.
Ditto with Obama.
Obama & Hillary were so close on the issues it's not funny.
I think it's all about personality & that's fine.
Obama is not going to redistribute the wealth that is a Republican lie/sound bite.
If you earn under 250,000 you will get a tax cut.
& for those that earn over 250,000 it will go back to what it was under Clinton is my understanding.
What's wrong with that?
Maybe if Bush didn't hand out all those tax cuts in the first place your economy would be a bit stronger at the moment than it is.
I think you guys pay less tax than we do anyway.
Some of the best countries in the world - standard of living - are socialist orientated.
You don't see ghettoes in Sweden now do you?
I can quite confidently say that I think big business will still rule in America no matter what & Obama is hardly socialist.



Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 02:40:53
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 03:03:37
Pelosi's leadership has been a disaster.

I disagree with you on Obama and Hillary but thats fine it doesnt matter you will get your messiah very soon.

Sarah 2012 !
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 03:04:20
Socialism belongs in Europe not my country!prediction Map

 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 03:08:32
Socialism is great except for the taxes!
lol
He's not my Messiah but I do like him now.
I'm sad his Grandmother died before seeing him win hopefully.
What do you think about Dixville Notch in New Hampshire voting Obama 15 to 6 for McCain, first time since 1968 the village has voted Democrat.
Let's hope that's a sign.
Fingers all crossed.
No to Palin.
urgh.
;)
Now you have become a Republican let me assure you you have better women then her.
Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Kay Bailey-Hutchison, Susan Molinari etc.
Hell even Elizabeth Dole.
Is it just me or does she look very plastic? If you know what I mean.
I saw a recent photo of her & thought good lord woman stop it.

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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 03:11:46
New Hampshire is definetly lost to Mc Cain that one doesnt suprise me.

Colorado and Virginia appear closer in polling then New Hampshire did.
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 03:26:51
I know weird.
I thought McCain would have a strong shot at New Hampshire, but it's drifted away again in the last week or so.
You'll be ok either way.
I thought it was the end of the world when Bush won - twice.
Well not really but it was not good but I got over it.
Then again I don't live there, so it is obviously worse.
As Gloria Gaynor sung darling - I Will Survive!

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 By: FrenchEd (D-NJ) 2008-11-04 @ 04:44:44
McCain 1.0 would have had a chance. McCain 2.0, that is Bush 3.0, is not on good ground. New Hampshire will probably follow the evolution of Vermont in years to come, though not quite as liberal or as weirdo (somehow I don't see a socialist Senator from NH...).prediction Map

 By: CR (--MO) 2008-11-04 @ 07:54:19
Liberalrocks welcome to the fold my friend. Always good to have another Republican on board! Even if you are a liberal Snowe/Rockefeller like Republican I'll take all the voices and votes we can get. If we lose you are so right in that it will be time to dig in as the opposition and rebuild our party. This election is not over yet, however, I think your map is the best Obama win senerio, minus Ohio. I believe John will carry Ohio but he may lose Nevada. We'll see.

The key states to watch for tonight are Virginia, Pennslyvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Florida, and Missouri. They'll tell us a lot about the state of the race. We just may be in for a few suprises.

McCain/Palin 2008!!!
Palin/Jindal 2012!!!


Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 07:55:10
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 08:06:16
Palin is history & will be history for 012 if not you guys will loose even more.
But that's just my opinion.
She has rallied the base but not much else.
Jindal on the other hand is probably worth a look at.
I would say Virginia has gone a while ago.
Pennsylvania seems to be strengthening for Obama in last few polls.
New Hampshire gone.
Hell you guys couldn't even win Dixville Notch - hasn't voted Democrat since '68 - that's an ominous sign if you ask me, & possible sign of a big swing on there to Obama.
North Carolina - totally line ball, early voting may swing it to Obama.
Ohio - I'm going to say Obama with big turn out.
I would love to see Hamilton county go, but maybe stay Republican by 1-3 points.
Florida - very lineball, which is still great considering Bush won it by 5 points 4 years ago.
Will we see a repeat of the chad fiasco?
Different voting system I know but awfully close once again.
I think Obama can win Florida.
The theme is everything is down on 4 years ago.
Missouri - I think Obama can scratch out a win on turnout.
100,000 in St Louis, & 75,000 in Kansas City says something is going on there.
Have you voted yet?
What's the weather like?
I'm off to bed & hope to wake up cheering on the Obama wins in the morning here!
Don't worry I won't be sleeping in!

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 By: CR (--MO) 2008-11-04 @ 08:13:09
The weather is just fine and I was in line at a quarter to six this morning. My ballot has been cast. Let me stay this, the whole St Louis thing with 100000, how many where from Illinois right next door? Palin has attracted good turnout in our state too. And win or lose she's not done yet. We'd have never come this far without her. Had McCain picked anyone else I think we'd have lost for sure. That of course is my opinion.

But we'll see, we'll see. Allow the people to speak and then move on.
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 08:22:12
True but right next door Illinois is fairly Republican isn't it?
That is the part of Illinois near St Louis.
How far is St Louis from Chicago?
I guess people could have driven down.
I agree I don't think she has been as bad for your ticket as some initially thought (myself included).
She has rallied the base, & if she didn't McCain wouldn't have, & would probably be going down even worse today.
But she's become the butt of jokes & ridicule (poor woman) & has entered Dan Quayle territory, so I don't know.
She'll need to polish up her act a bit, starting with getting some of her facts right (eg VP job description) for one would be good.
But good luck to her I guess.
I think you guys can and will probably need to do better though.
Jindal or Pawlenty at this stage would be better choices IMO.
I hope she does well in Alaska though.



Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 08:24:02
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 By: CR (--MO) 2008-11-04 @ 08:32:25
Not really, you have East St Louis, IL and it is heavily Democratic. So are several of the other counties in Illinois that border the St Louis region. I believe St Louis is about a 3 or 4 hour drive from Chicago. I know a lot of people that go up to Chicago for the week from St Louis. So I guess its not that far.

Personally I think Biden is the butt of many a joke himself. He's like a Dan Quayle to me. I guess it really depends on what side of the political divide you fall on. I believe that after serve as Alaska govenor for 4 more years, should we lose, that she'd be in prime condition to run in 2012. Sarah would certain have no problems in the GOP primaries I can tell you that much.

I'm also a big fan of Jindal. He her co-rising star as far as I'm concerned and I'd love to see them run for the White House together. That's my dream ticket, Palin/Jindal. But there are other great conservatives too - Pence, Blackburn, DeMint, Cantor, Steele, and so on and so forth. The GOP has bright days ahead of itself! Let's hear it for more optmism!
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 By: Chica Of Light (I-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 08:42:06
Liberal--hell, I might join you if Obama proves to be an effing disaster! Save a seat for me on the Republican luxury yacht!!!

As soon as this election is over--and I mean it!--I'm going to register as an Independent! I've absolutely had it!

Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 08:43:44
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-04 @ 08:45:54
Gosh I don't know of any of those other people you've mentioned.
Oh Blackburn is the woman from Tennessee?
Yeah she seems ok, I'm sure I would hate her views, but she speaks/presents herself well.

I'm no great fan of Biden, Obama could have done much better eg Hillary!
Those two I think would have been lethal this year.
You would have seen West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, & perhaps Tennessee also in play, certainly alot closer.
+ no Hillary fan leakage to the McCain.
Hell I think we would have even kept Liberalrocks!

I'm off to bed it's nearly midnight, & I'm stuffed, worked today, too much Champagne half way through for Melbourne Cup...

Take care.

I'll look forward to reading the post election analysis, as long as we win, otherwise it might take me a day or two to regroup...
probably not.


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 By: Chica Of Light (I-CA) 2008-11-04 @ 09:15:34
ConservRep--I think there will be surprises.

Here's to a night of surprises, my friend!

Last Edit: 2008-11-04 @ 09:16:28
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 By: colin (I-ON) 2008-11-04 @ 16:51:45
I think we are in for some surprises as well...I don't know to what extent though. I still see Obama winning, but the electoral margin many have him winning by is just not conceivable to me. Again, I hope you guys are right!prediction Map

 By: Liberallover (-NY) 2008-11-06 @ 23:44:14
Congratulations, Lib! You lost the right to marry. You and your Republican friends must be very happy.prediction Map

 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 01:03:02
OK Liberallover Im going to break Prop 8 down to you and if you dont believe me go review exit polling.
For this election as you all so strongly proclaim polling was 100%Right! huh? well not as far as this initiative was concerned.

The No on 8 forces including myself and YES other non-homosexual republicans were ahead in the polls anywhere from 3 -6 percent going into this election we lost 52/48. Oh but lets review why we lost.

But first lets review what groups we won.

We won a majority of white voters state wide
We won upper income, 4 year degree or higher educated.
We won asian and jewish americans
We won women.
We outpolled expectations among republicans and outpolled expectations in certain republican leaning counties including the republican stronghold Orange county where we got 44% of the vote.

Lets review where we lost

African Americans the same group energized about equality and your messiah. We lost them 75% to 25%. Hmm how many of them are registered Democrats? How many voted for Obama the "liberal" savior? So much for that right wing stealing equality for us lol.

We lost Hispanic Americans by a wide but less pronounced margin. Another group who voted overwhelmingly for Obama.

So we actually did better amoung Republicans then you eithier know or care to admit. Most likely you havent taken time to examine the statistics. Or are you trying to rub something you clearly have not reviewed right in my face? Something I worked long and hard on and am still protesting as we speak.

I know this I worked my heart out on this campaign again with Republicans who supportive vs. groups who voted for obama. Groups who have by their very nature faced discrimination throughout their lifetime.

That being said for the past 3 days and yes nights there have been protests going on all over Los Angeles San Francisco and a few others scattered about the state. In an attempt to have it overturned by the courts. Several lawsuits are being filed--Its a complete mess but the fight is not over.

So really dont try to make implications when you have no clue what the -real- situation was and just why it passed. We again received much more support from registered republicans then we did "liberal" african americans





Last Edit: 2008-11-07 @ 03:20:14
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 01:15:26
Its truly ironic that for the past 3 days I have had to accept defeat to your messiah. One whom's election the media proclaims to have broken the ultimate barrier. Only to have watched my rights being (hopefully temporarily) taken from me in the same night. By people who endured discrimination and claim to be voting for Obama to break the ultimate barrier.

Truly Ironic.....Go drink some more kool aide there will be a surplus for quite some time ,,no doubt.

None for me thanks....Still looking for substance over rhetoric in whom I support.

Last Edit: 2008-11-07 @ 01:15:47
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-07 @ 02:29:23
Well Liberal I'm sure you know that Conservative groups that are die hard Republicans or Republican supporters were hell bent in passing this proposition.

Sorry to see it though, but not surprised.
At least it wasn't as bad as the vote in Florida.

The 70% support from African Americans in passing this bill does not surprise me, as there is alot of homophobia in this community - just look at the hate filled lyrics by many Rap artists.
Socially they can be quite a conservative community.

Glad to see you're back to being an Independent - what happened?
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 02:35:50
Again read my above anaylysis about the measure. Minorities who know discrimination voted for discrimination. Scapegoating of another group of people without regard for thier own past struggles.... in a year when their barrier was broken they made ours that much harder. So much for seperation of church and state.

Read my map analysis about my party affiliation, I truly dont know where I fit or that I want a title. What I do know is that I will be voting republican and donating to various campaigns for as long as Obama is in the white house.

Last Edit: 2008-11-07 @ 02:39:17
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-07 @ 02:41:34
This is human nature unfortunately Liberal.
We love to discriminate others!
Look at the Jews with the Palestinians, straight after the Holocaust.
I know there's 2 sides there but to a certain extent the Palestinians have been treated badly.
I'm not anti Jewish, I just say it's human nature, stronger over weaker etc.
I do think however it's getting to the point at least in the Western World that we are the last group - Gays & Lesbians that are being totally discriminated against & it's unacceptable.
The fact that these discriminatory measures are allowed to go to the ballot is unacceptable.


Last Edit: 2008-11-07 @ 02:42:55
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-07 @ 02:45:43
There is hope, Liberal:

> Warning: extremely emotional content!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rfea8iEGNw
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-07 @ 02:50:28
Liberal will be fine I'm sure she'll see the light re Obama.
Might just take a while........
:)

I'm so looking forward to it so over Bush so over the Republican party.

They deserve a stint in the wilderness, hell we certainly didn't.

If we've had to put up with Bush for 8 years I think that gives the Dems at least 12!
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 03:09:39
Thanks wingindy.
I had actually heard that clip on the radio and was moved but to watch it is a different experience. We had many republicans vote with us you would be suprised. Again as I stated above. Realize though that California Republicans ( in the schwartzenegger mold) are less socially conservative then those from the mid-west and south. Thats why I had considered a change in party affiliation but then declined when taking a second look at the base of the party.

Well the truth be told I proably do agree with the two of you on more issues then I have admitted through out this campaign. I could however not bring myself to support the messiah. I have major issues with this man and his qualifications and I just dont like him- flat out.

Having said that he talks a good game...
Now lets see him deliver, With respect to the issue we've been discussing What will he do for the gay community? Will he speak out on this issue in the next 4 possibly 8 years?

I will say he is more likely to nominate a justice to the supreme court that would be more lgbt friendly that is reassuring. Unfortuanately Ruth Ginsberg and John Paul Stevens are in poor health they have been very good to our community.

I will be watching, Yes I could come back to the party I have such contempt for at the moment. Pelosi is sure not going to make that happen neithier is Dean. So we will see in time.


Last Edit: 2008-11-07 @ 03:12:53
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 03:16:45
We are fighting this in court,We are protesting in the streets. We will fight this and we will overcome in time.


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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-07 @ 04:28:29
Keep up the good fight Liberalrocks!
To have the Supreme Court overuled by a ballot initiative seems a bit ridiculous to me.
Why have the Supreme Court?
Why not just rule by referendum in that case?
They can't retroactively deny those already married.

I for one hope you come back to the Dems.
But Ind is ok too.

I was hurt too when Hillary lost just came round alot quicker.
She really was great for Obama, he owes her some thanks that is for sure.
Hillary worked tirelessly for him which really was amazing after such a heated Primary campaign.
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-07 @ 14:48:18
Obama would not have won in Indiana without the contested primary here against Hillary in May. No doubt. I imagine the same goes for North Carolina. Thank God for Hillary!!

Hip Hip!
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 By: Liberallover (-NY) 2008-11-07 @ 15:59:30
I think everybody knows the majority of the African American community is homophobic. Like demboy said, listen to the lyrics of rap music. But it wasn't African Americans who proposed Prop 8, Liberal. It was the Republicans, the Christians and the Sarah Palins. It's certainly not OBAMA's fault that the black community is homophobic; in fact, he has spoken out against the behavior the black community on a number of occasions.

You fought prop 8 day and night, but encouraged people to vote for Sarah Palin. That's called shitting against the tide.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-07 @ 21:57:38
Id do it all again!! Not so much for Sarah Palin but in support of Mc Cain.

Water under the bridge you have your messiah lets see if he can deliver. I certaintly am watching....

Im not opposed to giving him a chance I just dont have any faith he can deliver upon the smooth slogans after the hype dies.
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 By: whoblitzell (I-JPN) 2008-11-08 @ 15:31:17
The messiah doesn't need bridges. He walks over water and parts the seas for his supporters to cross.

But seriously, I think people are probably going to be a little disappointed in the following months.
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 By: dnul222 (D-MN) 2008-11-08 @ 15:46:58
I see the Omaha district went for Obama which gives him another electoral vote 375-163. There will be much that the new President elect will be unable to do once in power but he will govern more from the center I predict.

Thanks for your passionate defense of your positions, I praise you for this honest emotional and intellectual commitment to your causes.
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 By: FiveSenses99 (--MO) 2008-11-08 @ 15:53:52
The question is, if Obama *does* deliver, will you, liberal rocks, admit you were wrong about him and then support him? Or will you stubbornly hold onto your hatred of him?

If the later what does that imply? If all the reasons for opposing Obama fall through the roof (as half of them already have, such as you Hillary supporters insistence that he couldn't get elected) and there is nothing left, and you still refuse to back him, does that mean there is really another reason for hating him which you are not stating or admitting to?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume that if Obama delivers and ends up being an effective president who gets through most of what he has promised, that you will then support him.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-08 @ 17:01:38
I will support him if he delivers.... There I said it and it wasnt easy.

There are many things I hate about this man the slogans the empty promises the lack of accomplishments, The empty rock star idolism that is built on words not actions or again *ANY ACCOMPLISHMENTS* I also dislike most of his supporters...

I will support him if he proves himself, However I dont know if I can ever go back to the democratic party although Im not sure I want to embrace the republican party just yet eithier.
I truly am disappointed but not blinded in complete hatred I just have no faith in him and doubt he can deliver upon the cheap slogans. Time will tell but again I am open to hearing him out.

Last Edit: 2008-11-08 @ 17:06:29
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-08 @ 17:05:14
This election just like the last two have left me very disappointed and my faith in the american people choices in leadership. I see Obama as a democratic liberal version of George W Bush. I see similiarities to Jimmy Carter in the way he is coming to Washington. Now it remains to be seen if we see the same naviety in an administration as we saw in Carters or if he does become a strong leader and is able to become the next FDR/Truman/Kennedy/Reagan combinations and truly be an affective leaderprediction Map

 By: FiveSenses99 (--MO) 2008-11-08 @ 17:10:49
Please do not put REAGAN, the guy who ignored HIV and ignored millions in poverty, into the same group as FDR, Truman and Kennedy.prediction Map

 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-08 @ 17:15:50
LOL Fair Enough.

I had just thrown him in there as the american public widely considers him very successful.

As you know Im not a huge Reagan fan myself.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-08 @ 17:21:36
If I wasnt prepared to see Obama out I would not have returned to comment on post election results.

Surely you must see that I am here and commenting and you know how much I oppose him. I however was not blinded as to his coming victory in the closing days of this awful campaign.
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 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-08 @ 17:35:06
As a Hillary supporter I'm willing to give Obama a chance, just like I did Bush. Not to rehash electability, but I had thought that Hillary was more electable because she had a base of support from her husband. She was also more moderate and the dems that have been elected have been more moderate Dems. Obama was not ahead until Hillary dropped out in June and throughout the summer If you look at my maps I consistantly had Obama ahead narrowly until the financial crisis occurred. It was touch and go for him during the Rep Convention, but It was clear in September after the market crash, credit crisis, bailout, mortgage mess, etc... that Obama would have a very healthy win because the issue went 100% to the economy.

I don't personally like Obama. I don't care for his inner circle either, though I DO like Joe Biden. But, I'm willing to give him a chance. It will be refreshing to listen to a president that can actually use the English language correctly.
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 By: whoblitzell (I-JPN) 2008-11-08 @ 22:40:53
I think that is what a lot of this election boiled down to. People wanted a President they could believe in again. The machine candidates failed and the message of optimism and change carried the day. I think Obama won in the end because he inspires his followers to vote more than McCain inspires his own.

I know a few Republicans that didn't even bother voting on election day here. Of course, they probably all figured McC would easily carry Indiana.
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 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-09 @ 08:20:40
Uh, LR, if I read this all correctly, it was the REPUBLICANS who put up Prop 8, and Palin is for a constitutional amendment outlawing gay marriage, and yet you were a strong McCain supporter.

So, if you wished to cut off your own leg, that was your problem, and you should not be blaming others for it. Had you stuck with the DEM platform instead of getting so caught up in personalities, had you actually listened to Hillary Clinton when she more than wholeheartedly endorsed Obama and went on the trail for him SEVENTY times, then perhaps the pain of Prop 8 would be different.

But I find it unbelievably hypocritical that a gay man was willing to support a party that is OPENLY hostile to his orientation.

Fascinating.
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 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-09 @ 08:22:00
"It will be refreshing to listen to a president that can actually use the English language correctly. "

Indeed.
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 By: colin (I-ON) 2008-11-09 @ 09:28:09
Bonn and to all others...we have hashed this out once before. Please don't insult mine and others intelligence by saying that we are all one issue voters. There are many policies that are important to me as a human being, and one does not trump the other(s). I am a much more complex human being than just "I am gay". So, yes, I am gay, and yes, I would have voted for McCain had I been able to. As LR stated above, the Republican community in California was actually much more open and friendly to Prop 8 than most base Democrat groups were, ie. African Americans. Speaking of unbelievably hypocritical! Ignorant people will never understand...I have begun to accept this conclusion...and I am NOT referring to African Americans...prediction Map

 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-09 @ 13:13:34
Bonn-I form my own opinions and although I support Hillary she does not own my opinion. I would have done it all again very proudly I carry the fundamental belief that Obama should not be where he is.So if somehow I supported Obama the pain of the loss would be different?? Oh please! detail that because I truly want to hear that. Truly Humorous. Would I feel any less of a second class citizen like the bottom of the earth.

What I want to hear is how by voting for "change" and the historic barrier of an african american taking the white house calms the pain and anger of losing a fundamental right. I want to hear how voting for Obama a candidate who African Americans and Latinos swarmed the polls to vote for, yet voted against equality for ALL Californians. Somehow Im suppose to feel greatful we have come so far, No Bonn Sorry I dont. I would have felt the same no matter how I voted presidentially. Some of my friends have voted for Obama and yet feel the same loss just like we are overlooked second class citizens. They actually feel worse because its like they did what they felt is their part for equality and yet was bitch slapped by the same people they helped break that barrier African Americans and to a lesser extent Latino's.I certaintly dont expect Obama to do a damn thing to change that. He is a gifted skilled POLITICIAN and knows better then to take on the risk of helping the gay community.

So again going back to what I wrote in my above statements, and because you are such a gifted genius in polling maybe you should pour over those election returns of where the democratic ticket trounced Mc Cain and yet the YES vote was somehow strong. "Democratic" precincts where Yes won overwhelmingly. Republican precincts where it was unexpectly close. We carried a majority of white voters who tend to lean republican. We again LOST african americans who were energized by your messiah.

The real truth is no matter which presidential candidate had been elected none would have done a damn thing for or against the movement. None would have taken us on because we are a risk politically and now apparently for the moment we are again second class citizens in California.

So I dont need a straight man residing in Germany to spell that out for me. Im on the ground here in California I know whats going on and I have reviewed the election returns and the exit polls.

Last Edit: 2008-11-09 @ 13:22:32
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-09 @ 13:27:37
Colin-Thanks for the comments my friend and I am with you in our disappointment in the loss of Mc Cain-Palin. As far as Prop 8 is concerned as I wrote above all one has to do is review the precincts where YES won and how it won in parts of inner city Los Angeles and suburban Los Angeles where Obama trounced Mc Cain and registration is 3 sometimes 4 to 1 Democratic. All one has to do is read the post political stories being written of how this initiative was inacted due to the support of minorities. The same minorities who know all too well whats its like to live with discrimination. I know you get it Colin!

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 By: FrenchEd (D-NJ) 2008-11-09 @ 18:00:02
Minorities are downscale and less educated and more religious and therefore not as open to gays as upscale educated secular people. That's a sociological fact and there is nothing we can do about it.
Now, with Schwazenegger favoring Prop 8, I think you can still argue the conservative Republican in "inner CA" voted for the Prop. Maybe some upscale social liberal Republicans didn't. That's highly probable and they should be numerous in CA. The issue was split around social conservative social liberal lines, which does blur the pure party line thing.

And Liberalrocks, I happen to be a white male middle-class heterosexual so I can't tell you I know how you feel, but I certainly feel for all Californian gays and gays who thought of coming to your state to live with equal rights. There is no excuse for this constitutional amendment and frankly I think a McCain/No voter and an Obama/Yes voter are not only paradoxes (though I know noone is a one-issue voter) -I just couldn't decide who I'm closer to.

Good luck with your legal fight. I hope you win.

Btw, I told you about the Republican base. You might like the ideas but the people won't like you. Politics is a world where tolerance is low. Just look at how we split on the only issue of the Democratic candidate's name, called ourselves names for months and eventually lost your support not only for Obama but for the party.

I wish you luck, and I hope you will see the good in Obama one day, if indeed he is up to the expectations. He has an enormous weight on his shoulders, the kind of which none has had since Harry Truman, and he cannot afford to disappoint a nation which turned to him as its last hope. Obama has no middle road: either he carves himself a place in history next to FDR and Harry Truman or he goes down in the books as an inexperienced man who mishandled a crisis which overwhelmed him -in short, as you put it, a second Carter. Frankly I don't know.
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 By: FiveSenses99 (--MO) 2008-11-09 @ 18:19:26
"But I find it unbelievably hypocritical that a gay man was willing to support a party that is OPENLY hostile to his orientation.

Fascinating." -bonn

Yes, it is fascinating, but some people just aren't too bright.

I totally get that a gay person can be fiscally conservative. Though I strongly disagree, its his or her right and mind. If a gay person doesn't like the democratic positions on fiscal issues, and doesn't want to vote for Democrats because of it, that is completely respectful, but to turn around and to stick up for a party which denies your humanity, your basic rights as living being, and claims you are a beacon of sin, and claims that you chose your lifestyle, which you know yourself is untrue, is sickening. Its not just that they say you shouldn't have basic rights, its that they claim the way you were born was sinful, when you aren't hurting anyone else. And their attitude breeds intolerance, misinformation, hatred, lies and encourages the destruction of science, reason and evidence and human good will.

So if you don't want to vote Democratic, fine. Vote third party, don't vote, or speak out openly against the GOP and their hatred. And don't bash someone else with the courage and the balls to do so. Write the GOP, tell them what they are doing is wrong and don't stand down. But, alas, there is something telling about a party that harbors members who are so hateful on such an issue, and who think such a way on such an issue for this kind of thinking isn't in a vaccum, but rather, it denotes a flaw in ones world view and a flaw in logic. 90% of people who are anti gay are thus so because (or at least they use this as an excuse for their fears) of religion. They claim the bible says being gay is wrong (even though it is only mention once in the bible, and many many many minor things which they over look are mentioned far more often)
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 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-09 @ 18:29:27
Its a fact that the black community is very socially conservative and religious. As I stated before, they only vote Democratic due to economic issues. In general they have little in common with Dems culturally. The same applies to the Latino community, but it was apparent from Exit Polling in CA the bulk of the Oppostion to Gay Marriage (Yes on 8) came from blacks, and evangelicals. Ironic that those most blindly devoted to the polar opposites (Palin and Obama) had one thing in common: Opposition to Gay Marriage. Actually, What is Incredibly hypocritical is that certain people felt they deserved or were owed an Obama presidency, yet didn't want to return any favors in support or help of fellow "Democrats" who were eager to support Mr. Obama. Again the Dems have become so "tolerant" that they are becoming "intolerant."

I believe it was actually out of state money and people, especially those associated with the Mormon church that were instrumental in Prop. 8. Governor Schwarzenegger and the GOP mayor of San Diego were against Prop. 8. John McCain does NOT support a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage even though the bulk of his party does, including Palin.

Why should Liberalrocks have had to listen to Hillary Clinton. Does anyone actually listen to Hillary Clinton anymore? lol... Conservatives hate her. Liberals hate her. I can't even stand to listen to her anymore. "We must elect Barack Obama our President." blah, blah, blah... Okay Hillary, no one is paying attention to you. Your party ditched you and your about as popular as Joe Lieberman! You've now allowed yourself to be walked over by two men, just to save your political ambitions. You wont stand up for your voters. Youre a doormat!

Last Edit: 2008-11-09 @ 18:35:51
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 By: FiveSenses99 (--MO) 2008-11-09 @ 19:19:08
I wouldn't say the black community is "socially conservative" though I will agree as a whole they are with the gay issue. But with abortion, freedoms of speech, with rap artists etc they are hardly socially conservative...

But again, it all boils down that RELIGION.
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-09 @ 23:17:49
Republicans turned out in Indiana, but many of them split their tickets - Obama, and Mitch Daniels for Governor. Daniels won a resounding victory.prediction Map

 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-09 @ 23:29:54
"upscale social liberal Republicans" in California? Not a huge contingent.

Continue playing the victim with the "Clinton is a doormat" and "Not to rehash electability" talk, if you wish.
Hillary herself moved on long ago, as has been noted made 70 campaign appearance for Obama, has been consulted extensively by the transition team, and will likely play any role she chooses in the administration.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-10 @ 02:34:38
Too bad they didnt fully vet her EVER for vice president.

Then ofcourse releasing Bidens name as Vice President at 3 am was truly priceless.

No I agree with Doniki Clinton is a doormat and while I still admire her strength I too feel she has allowed herself to be used in order to save her reputation politically. Its so apparent she is not doing it out of her own will. I have lost some respect for her. I will always admire her but just feel bad for the way things had to turn out.

Last Edit: 2008-11-10 @ 02:35:58
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-10 @ 02:38:48
The same holds true for Bill Clinton. The Clintons and the Obama's will never have any love between them The Clintons simply want to be on the right side of history. Obama would have won with or without them the fact that they campaigned for him (more so Hillary) shows how they have postioned themselves for the history books rather then out of their own inner will. Just another day in politics.prediction Map

 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-10 @ 10:23:02
Im not playing the victim. Im just stating the facts. I simply don't care anymore. That said, if she had the strength of character, I thought she did, she would have told the Democrats to go to hell, like Lieberman did. But, its her choice to support Obama, to save her political career, so the liberals in the Dem party dont boot her out the way they did Joe Lieberman. At least Joe Lieberman stands his ground, despite was is "popular" or "trendy" at the time.

I'm just calling it as I see it! I don't feel any allegiance to either party and don't really care. I didn't even vote. But it is hard to ignore the reality that is staring at you in the face!

Last Edit: 2008-11-10 @ 10:24:06
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-10 @ 10:51:07
She stated on numerous occasions, probably the bulk of those 70 campaign appearances, that Obama represnted to positions she herself had fought for her whole life. (She reamins a heroine amonst liberal, after all). To claim that she did this out of pure political expediency is ignoring this reality, IMHO. There are those who are able to value principles before personalities. While I know it was not easy for you, Doni, it appears to me that you, like Hillary, are one of those that have been able to do so.prediction Map

 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-10 @ 11:24:24
@wingindy- My point is that I don't care. It was Hillary's choice. I don't particularly agree, but she did what she had to, as she did in the 1990's for her husband. It just a very sad commentary on the woman, IMO. I just don't have much respect for either party anymore and I don't feel represented by either party anymore and I didn't feel like voting for the lesser of two evils once again. I like Mr. McCain (on his own) and I could have voted for Mr. McCain, but quite frankly Palin scares me and it is very apparent that the McCain I recall from 2000 and 2004 isn't the one that emerged in 2008. At the same time I could have voted for Obama since I really have become a fan of Joe Biden, but I don't particularly like Mr. Obama.

I'm more than willing to give Mr. Obama a chance and I will consider him in 2012. In fact, I'm encouraged by his promise to lift Bush's ban on expanding stem cell research. There is a lot of work that is done in Columbus at OSU and in Cleveland at the Cleveland Clinic regarding research with stem cells and I think it would be a boost to Ohio to have access to more stem cell lines. I hope Obama acts swiftly, via executive power, to undo what he can from the Bush administration.
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-11 @ 05:22:36
As a gay person I would not vote for my enemies & that = the Republican party.
I am sick & tired of their wedge politics.
This is another reason why they lost.
People are sick of the partisanship, the ugly commentary on the right.
Gay people can vote Republican, I think it's weird, but it's their right.
We are all more than 1 issue people but at the end of the day we would have no rights if it was up to the Republicans/& or their base, so for me that trumps economics, religion, conservatism any day as it is a threat to me as an individual to exist.
I don't want to live in a 1950's world where I have to hide who I am, be married unhappily & have 2 kids, & a dog, & then it's all peachy.
No thanks.
LR how do you explain now die hard Republican Arkansas with their much stronger vote against Gay adoption?
& the stronger result against us in more Republican Florida?
Obviously there are some Republicans that support us, not much, but some, & yes unfortunately there are Democrats who are against us.
Bottom line is we - Gay & Lesbian people are the last truely discriminated agianst minority.
I do hope Obama will bring about change for us.
I hope that the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy for the military is scrapped, this for me is more important than the marriage issue to begin with.
In the question of marriage, we should be asking for Civil Unions to be recognised, this should be the bare minimum.


Last Edit: 2008-11-11 @ 05:41:23
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-11 @ 05:26:35
Hillary was fantastic, a true sport, which can't be said from some of her die hard supporters.
She has done more than any other Primary candidate (probably combined) for the Presidential candidate in history.
I hope Obama gives her a cabinet position if she wants it, she would be great in Health obviously.
Clinton is no doormat how rude.
I'm offended.
She has held her position in the Democratic party, & will continue to be a strong influence as she sees fit in the years to come.



Last Edit: 2008-11-11 @ 05:30:48
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-11 @ 05:29:18
Doniki I think you'll find Liebermen went feral after he was disendorsed for the Democrats by the Connecticut party.
If it was on principal than it was on his unwaivering pro Iraq war stance.
PS did you end up voting, I'd love to know how your vote went.




Last Edit: 2008-11-11 @ 05:50:39
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 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-11 @ 10:26:08
@demboy- I was offended by a lot of things in this election... lol... To be completely honest, the fact is that we are seeing a repeat of 1998 in 2008 regarding Hillary Clinton. She has sacrificed herself and her integrity for yet another man. The difference this time is that in the process 18 million voters weren't heard, though I fully understand Mr. Obama's ego had no intention of giving us any representation. I absolutely refuse to defend the Republican party, though I still respect John McCain. At the same time, I have tried my damndest to defend the Democratic party over the past 8 years and I have tried my damndest to defend Hillary Clinton over the past 2 years, but I can no longer defend the indefensible.

I don't think I'm being rude in my observation. Its simply my opinion. Opinions are just opinions. They are not facts. I still like her positions on certain issues, including healthcare, but I don't admire the woman the way I did a few months ago. I will tell you though if you want to see RUDE, you should log onto dailykos, swingstateproject, and other liberal websites? Who is Public Enemy Number 1? Not Bush and Cheney! Public Enemy number 1 for liberals is Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman!!! The true left wing goes beyond "rude." They go right pure HATE!!! I've never seen such a group of angry and hateful people. I thought evangelicals were bad in 2004. Liberals are worse.

Also, I didn't even bother to go vote. The new Dem Congressman in my district, John Boccieri, whom I really do like and wanted to see win, was well ahead or I might have reconsidered. If the left wing wanted to elect Obama they didn't need my vote and I'm not going to sacrifice my values to vote for Sarah Palin. I honestly didn't care who won. It was a fascinating race to watch, but I think the outcome was a foregone conclusion since September. Again, I just didn't care. I'm fine either way. I'm willing to give Obama a chance, just as I was willing to give Bush a chance in 2000.

Last Edit: 2008-11-11 @ 10:28:47
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-11 @ 10:45:42
I read kos, and see no hatred for the Clintons. Lieberman yes, I grant you that. Certainly kossacks and others, on all sides, went over the line during both the primaries and general election. Thankfully the Obama campaign consistently rejected divisive politics, as does the transition team. Most now recognize the incredible service Clinton performed, not only in her post-primary campaigning, but in staying in and keeping the Democratic race high profile into May. Obama WOULD NOT have won Indiana OR North Carolina had those states not had the competitive late primaries.

Olberman had a good opinion piece on Prop. 8 yesterday. While I never was opposed to gay marriage, as a straight male I have to admit I was a bit apathetic on the issue, and saw civil unions as a reasonable alternative. Olberman's commentary made me give more thought to the issue, and see the ugliness of the anti-gay marriage movement. I'm confident that in time this will be overturned, perhaps sooner, by the Courts, rather than later.
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 By: Liberallover (-NY) 2008-11-11 @ 21:40:47
Agreed, Demboy.

Please folks, stop being offended for Hillary. No one's ego got in the way, someone came out on top with more delegates and WON the primary. That's how it works. (That said I'm quite happy I get to keep my liberal senator AND get my first liberal president- in my lifetime)

And yes, there is a groundswell everywhere from New York to California to Utah against the Christian Right. Gays will not be second class citizens by 2012.
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 By: wingindy (I-IN) 2008-11-11 @ 23:01:31
From 538.com:

Prop 8 Myths
Writes Dan Walters of the Sacramento Bee:


Last week, however, 10 percent of voters were African American while 18 percent were Latino, and applying exit poll data to that extra turnout reveals that the pro-Obama surge among those two groups gave Proposition 8 an extra 500,000-plus votes, slightly more than the measure's margin of victory.

To put it another way, had Obama not been so popular and had voter turnout been more traditional – meaning the proportion of white voters had been higher – chances are fairly strong that Proposition 8 would have failed.
Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. But the notion that Prop 8 passed because of the Obama turnout surge is silly. Exit polls suggest that first-time voters -- the vast majority of whom were driven to turn out by Obama (he won 83 percent [!] of their votes) -- voted against Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. More experienced voters voted for the measure 56-44, however, providing for its passage.

Now, it's true that if new voters had voted against Prop 8 at the same rates that they voted for Obama, the measure probably would have failed. But that does not mean that the new voters were harmful on balance -- they were helpful on balance. If California's electorate had been the same as it was in 2004, Prop 8 would have passed by a wider margin.

Furthermore, it would be premature to say that new Latino and black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage. Latinos aged 18-29 (not strictly the same as 'new' voters, but the closest available proxy) voted against Prop 8 by a 59-41 margin. These figures are not available for young black voters, but it would surprise me if their votes weren't fairly close to the 50-50 mark.

At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.

The good news for supporters of marriage equity is that -- and there's no polite way to put this -- the older voters aren't going to be around for all that much longer, and they'll gradually be cycled out and replaced by younger voters who grew up in a more tolerant era. Everyone knew going in that Prop 8 was going to be a photo finish -- California might be just progressive enough and 2008 might be just soon enough for the voters to affirm marriage equity. Or, it might fall just short, which is what happened. But two or four or six or eight years from now, it will get across the finish line.
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-12 @ 00:40:07
I choose not to ignore the fact that over 70 % of African Americans and well over 50% of all latinos voted Yes on the measure. While a majority of white voters voted against it.(including 20% of republicans) Im sorry choice sugar coated wording is NOT going to change the fact that minorities victims of discrimination themselves voted to attach it to a legal document on grounds of morality.

No few paragraphs beautifully worded is going to change that for me a gay second class citizen in this county.


Thanks for playing! Wingindy, Now go back to your first class superior heterosexual lifestyle.

Last Edit: 2008-11-12 @ 00:44:53
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 By: Liberalrocks (D-CA) 2008-11-12 @ 00:42:45
Oh and Liberallover-Ill stay offended for Hillary and the sham of a democratic primary process. Someone needs to takes offense as Hillary has allowed herself to become a doormat in this entire process.prediction Map

 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-12 @ 04:30:08

THE NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE (continuing update):


The final national polls on 11/03-11/04 had an average of +7.54, and I made the following prediction:


Obama: 52.77%

McCain:45.23%

Other: 2%


As of 11/12, the PV and percentages:


Obama: 52.62% (66,115,514)

McCain: 46.05% (57,859,168)

Nader: 0.54% (679,465)

Barr: 0.40% (500,045)

Baldwin: 0.14% (180,864)

Other: 0.25% (320,071)


Current PV total: 125,655,127

real vote margin: +8,256,346


Margin: Obama +6.57


PV total 2004: 122,293,548


Difference to 2004: +3,415,579


Deviation from my projection:


Obama: -0.16%

McCain. +0.82%

Other: -0.67%


Tendency: rising for Obama.


I missed McCain's percentage. But am only 0.16% away from Obama's percentage. And these numbers will change again a number of times. The statistical probablility is extremely high that Obama comes up to at least 52.70%.

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 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-12 @ 05:05:06
OY!!!! OY!!!! OY!!!!!


I am not 100% sure how many more votes are out there to count, but assuming that a number of states use the 10 day rule to count absentee ballots or military ballots, spread over 50 state plus DC, I can imagine that easily 800,000-900,000 ballots are still yet to be tabulated. That would average to 17,647 per "state". Wait and see. But soon we will have the official results and the whole world will know.

But I just did blitzmath in my head and came to a startling conclusion, based on the current PV total of 66,115,514 for Obama. If Barack Obama gets just 484,486 of those remaining votes to be tabulated, then his vote tally comes to:

66,600,000 votes

Those who know the Book of Revelations out of the Christian Bible (the final book, called "Die Offenbarung Johannes" in german) know immediately what these first three digits have been interpreted to mean. I can see and "hear" the propaganda for the extreme-right and the religious right already revving up.

Mark my words: there will be op-eds and write ups about this in certain circles, as soon as the final vote comes in, for I think that Obama will come it at either just below or just above 66.6 million votes.

My statistical response as a thinking american: fascinating.

My response as a jew: OY!

When the right-wing press kicks into overdrive about this, just remember who reported it first: good old, mild mannered Bonncaruso.
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 By: demboy73 (D-AUS) 2008-11-12 @ 06:52:14
I don't think you can blame just minorities for prop 8.
It's disappointing at their level of support, but there was obviously plenty to go round.
Hang in there don't despair.
We've been through worse & continue to survive & thrive as a Gay & Lesbian community.

Hillary is no doormat.
She never has been & never will be.
She will continue to be the great Senator from New York.
Obama has appreciated her unprecedented help, & I am certain her strength in the Democratic party will continue in whatever form she sees fit.
She has come out of this process still being held in great esteem by most in the Democratic party & beyond.

Would be great to see her in health, or something like Ambassador to the UN.
Just my opinion.
But again she's doing fine in the Senate.
It's not like it's a crap job to begin with.

Anyway Hillary has already created her own history in this campaign, & it's nothing to be ashamed of - most votes for runner up, running strong as a Woman etc.

Go Hillary!



Last Edit: 2008-11-12 @ 06:55:11
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 By: Indi-rocks (R-CA) 2008-11-15 @ 13:29:11
Go Hillary!

Liberalrocks is now Indi-rocks by popular demand!
 

 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-15 @ 15:31:39
Moose is the new Black!

Last Edit: 2008-11-15 @ 15:32:17
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 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-17 @ 16:31:47
Häääääähhh?prediction Map

 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-18 @ 11:01:45
Moose is the new Black! Yes it is!

It's a play on Tina Fey's "Bitch is the New Black." Since you can't turn on the television and be inundated with Obama or caribou barbie, the right-wing moose hunter/moose chili maker up in Alaska, I've declared "Moose is the New Black!"
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 By: doniki80 (I-OH) 2008-11-18 @ 11:09:27
"Oh yea, ya see my dad goes out and hunts the moose. I hunt the caribou cuz the moose is too big and you don't want to mess with a big mother moose protectin' her youngins. So my dad kills the moose and has it cut up and we freeze it. A moose can feed the entire family thru the winter, yes it can. Now, I just go in the freezer get a hunka meat and cut it up real fine and put it in my moose chili. Todd and the kids love my moose chili."

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......I'm sick and tired of hearing about Moose!!! Someone shut her up!!!
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 By: bonncaruso (D-DEU) 2008-11-18 @ 11:48:17
ROFLMAO
ROFLMAO
ROFLMAO

Sometimes there are advantages to not getting american TV, you know...
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User's Predictions

Prediction Score States Percent Total Accuracy Ver #D Rank#Pred
P 2024 President /56 /56 /112 % pie 246
P 2022 Senate 34/35 26/35 60/70 85.7% pie 1 4 48T305
P 2022 Governor 32/36 27/36 59/72 81.9% pie 1 4 88T272
P 2020 President 50/56 36/56 86/112 76.8% pie 9 6 529T684
P 2020 Senate 29/35 19/35 48/70 68.6% pie 1 4 337T423
P 2020 Governor 11/11 7/11 18/22 81.8% pie 1 5 51T293
P 2018 Senate 30/35 17/35 47/70 67.1% pie 5 0 334T483
P 2018 Governor 33/36 25/36 58/72 80.6% pie 3 2 56T372
P 2016 President 48/56 29/56 77/112 68.8% pie 14 0 369T678
P 2016 Senate 30/34 17/34 47/68 69.1% pie 7 0 213T362
P 2016 Governor 9/12 6/12 15/24 62.5% pie 5 0 47T279
P 2014 Senate 33/36 24/36 57/72 79.2% pie 60 0 82T382
P 2014 Governor 29/36 17/36 46/72 63.9% pie 53 0 123T300
P 2012 President 55/56 46/56 101/112 90.2% pie 97 1 77T760
P 2012 Senate 32/33 22/33 54/66 81.8% pie 48 0 40T343
P 2012 Governor 11/11 7/11 18/22 81.8% pie 12 0 24T228
P 2012 Rep Primary 44/52 26/52 70/104 67.3% pie 67 - 5T231
P 2010 Senate 34/37 25/37 59/74 79.7% pie 71 1 63T456
P 2010 Governor 35/37 21/37 56/74 75.7% pie 44 5 106T312
P 2008 President 51/56 42/56 93/112 83.0% pie 53 1 139T1,505
P 2008 Senate 31/33 15/33 46/66 69.7% pie 4 24 227T407
P 2008 Governor 8/11 5/11 13/22 59.1% pie 2 17 232T264
P 2008 Dem Primary 49/52 18/52 67/104 64.4% pie 24 - 23T271
P 2008 Rep Primary 33/49 16/49 49/98 50.0% pie 7 - 55T235
Aggregate Predictions 751/845 493/845 1244/1690 73.6% pie


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