Italy 2013: The official thread

[Keystone Phil]

Benvenuto, Sim!

Fini's party is still around. Sadly, it never really got off the ground. I still support FLI but, realistically, they're not a factor. It isn't neofascist at all. You're probably thinking of old Fini/AN. Fini now has a more moderate reputation now. Key AN members founded the new right wing party: Fratelli d'Italia Centrodestra Nazionale. That's the other party I support.

And I'm glad many members here are coming back down to earth. A center-left win is far from a guarantee. This is Italy and I don't just say that to be a smart ass. Berlusconi will pull out his Red Scare tactics (as he should with Bersani) so that should narrow it. That said, there is a clear favorite here and the Right would have to put on one spectacular performance to pull this off.

[Andrea]

Any candidate that stands in more than one constituency is surely a party leader and part of the 10% quota, right?

Yes

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, Fini's not a neofascist in any meaningful sense. He's even pretty moderate by Italian standards.

In all fairness, I have to admit that AN's evolution is a rare example of a far-right party that genuinely dropped the extremism and evolved into a mainstream political force. There are a number of far-right parties throughout Europe that claim to have done this and blatantly haven't (FN is the prime example). Most of ex-AN guys are still idiots and assholes, but not fascists.

[Keystone Phil]

Yeah, Fini's not a neofascist in any meaningful sense. He's even pretty moderate by Italian standards.

In all fairness, I have to admit that AN's evolution is a rare example of a far-right party that genuinely dropped the extremism and evolved into a mainstream political force. There are a number of far-right parties throughout Europe that claim to have done this and blatantly haven't (FN is the prime example). Most of ex-AN guys are still idiots and assholes, but not fascists.

Yeah, this new AN party really lives up to its center-right name. Certainly more centrist than extreme. I guess abrasive personalities like La Russa fit in your "asshole" description but that's ok.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And I'm glad many members here are coming back down to earth. A center-left win is far from a guarantee. This is Italy and I don't just say that to be a smart ass. Berlusconi will pull out his Red Scare tactics (as he should with Bersani) so that should narrow it. That said, there is a clear favorite here and the Right would have to put on one spectacular performance to pull this off.

Ah, but it isn't just Berlusconi I'm thinking of.

[Keystone Phil]

And I'm glad many members here are coming back down to earth. A center-left win is far from a guarantee. This is Italy and I don't just say that to be a smart ass. Berlusconi will pull out his Red Scare tactics (as he should with Bersani) so that should narrow it. That said, there is a clear favorite here and the Right would have to put on one spectacular performance to pull this off.

Ah, but it isn't just Berlusconi I'm thinking of.

Aside from Lega, anyone else in particular?

[Andrea]

Full results of PD Parliamentary Primary

http://www.primarieparlamentaripd.it/risultati.htm

And I'm glad many members here are coming back down to earth. A center-left win is far from a guarantee. This is Italy and I don't just say that to be a smart ass. Berlusconi will pull out his Red Scare tactics (as he should with Bersani) so that should narrow it. That said, there is a clear favorite here and the Right would have to put on one spectacular performance to pull this off.

Ah, but it isn't just Berlusconi I'm thinking of.

Aside from Lega, anyone else in particular?

Monti resurrecting DC and carrying it to the win?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Monti resurrecting DC and carrying it to the win?

Basically. It doesn't seem very likely, but then Berlusconi winning in 1994 was not exactly plausible sounding until it actually happened either.

[Keystone Phil]

Monti resurrecting DC and carrying it to the win?

Basically. It doesn't seem very likely, but then Berlusconi winning in 1994 was not exactly plausible sounding until it actually happened either.

Ah, I thought your initial comment was suggesting that actors other than Berlusconi would engage in Communist bashing, not about who would end up winning.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Monti resurrecting DC and carrying it to the win?

Basically. It doesn't seem very likely, but then Berlusconi winning in 1994 was not exactly plausible sounding until it actually happened either.

You forgot

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That too, yes. Better not rule anything out, no matter how strange.

[Keystone Phil]

Monti slams Silvio on family values! - http://www.news24.com/World/News/Monti-slams-Berlusconi-on-family-values-20130102


Oh, and we apparently missed Berlusconi's gay comments the other day:


---

The left "accuses me of everything except being gay and stealing money from Italians," the 76-year-old Mr Berlusconi said in an interview on Radio Capital.

"But I have a lot of gay friends. They're friendly and funny," said Mr Berlusconi...

---



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/silvio-berlusconi/9773029/Silvio-Berlusconi-backtracks-after-making-gay-jibe.html

[minionofmidas]

The Left claims Silvio Berlusconi is not stealing money from Italians? News to me.

[Keystone Phil]

The Left claims Silvio Berlusconi is not stealing money from Italians? News to me.

You must be unfamiliar with the recent Berlusconi habit of making especially bizarre/contradictory statements.

[Iannis]

Monti knows that his weak points can be the alliance with old politicians like Fini and Casini, or the blame to "re-build the DC", together with the Vatican, that's why he said he's not centrist nor a "moderate", and that ethical issues won't be at the center of the campaign, but the economy. He points to give the view of a strong reformist agenda in economic issues, trying not to fuel arguments in other issues.

[minionofmidas]

The Left claims Silvio Berlusconi is not stealing money from Italians? News to me.

You must be unfamiliar with the recent Berlusconi habit of making especially bizarre/contradictory statements.

No, I just stumbled on that line. My diagnosis from afar is Botox-induced Brain Poisoning.

[Keystone Phil]

that's why he said he's not centrist nor a "moderate", and that ethical issues won't be at the center of the campaign, but the economy.

I understand the latter strategy but he isn't labeling himself as a moderate/centrist for what reason? Is he trying to pass himself off as a leftist on social policy (which just wouldn't seem believable given his alliances/endorsements he has received)? I could understand saying social/ethical issues won't be his focus but I don't know why that means he can't label himself as a moderate.

[Iannis]

that's why he said he's not centrist nor a "moderate", and that ethical issues won't be at the center of the campaign, but the economy.

I understand the latter strategy but he isn't labeling himself as a moderate/centrist for what reason? Is he trying to pass himself off as a leftist on social policy (which just wouldn't seem believable given his alliances/endorsements he has received)? I could understand saying social/ethical issues won't be his focus but I don't know why that means he can't label himself as a moderate.

No, he claims to be liberal (in european, not american meaning), but refufes to be labeled as conservative or centrist, because the latter in Italy is associated with old un-efficient politics, and claims to be keen to radical reforms, so quite the opposite to conservatorism. And beyond left-right labels.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Quite a clever piece of electoral dishonesty. Might even work.

[Keystone Phil]

that's why he said he's not centrist nor a "moderate", and that ethical issues won't be at the center of the campaign, but the economy.

I understand the latter strategy but he isn't labeling himself as a moderate/centrist for what reason? Is he trying to pass himself off as a leftist on social policy (which just wouldn't seem believable given his alliances/endorsements he has received)? I could understand saying social/ethical issues won't be his focus but I don't know why that means he can't label himself as a moderate.

No, he claims to be liberal (in european, not american meaning), but refufes to be labeled as conservative or centrist, because the latter in Italy is associated with old un-efficient politics, and claims to be keen to radical reforms, so quite the opposite to conservatorism. And beyond left-right labels.

Don't worry, you don't have to explain ideological meanings outside of the U.S. I know what "liberal" and "conservative" means in an Italian/European/rest of the world sense.

[Keystone Phil]

I was looking through the coalition listings. I'll post it for reference (and also a question at the bottom). So far, it's broken into four groups:

Italy. Common Good. (Center-left - PD/SEL/PSI/CD)

Center-Right (No name given yet - PdL/La Destra/FdI-CN/GS)

Monti's Agenda for Italy (Centrist (despite what Monti says) - UdC/FLI/VTR/PLI)

Civil Revolution (Anti Corruption/Democratic socialism - IdV, FdS, MA, FdV)


Two major parties missing: Lega Nord (which will have to officially decide if they're joining the center-right coalition very soon) and M5S. I know Lega has stated that they could run on their own but is there a chance that M5S would join the "Anti Corruption" coalition or are they really not joining anyone as I believe they previously stated?

[minionofmidas]

I suppose it's no accident that Rivoluzione Civile has the same initials as Rifondazione Comunista?

[Zuza]

is there a chance that M5S would join the "Anti Corruption" coalition or are they really not joining anyone as I believe they previously stated?

According to Wikipedia, Grillo refused to join Civil Revolution.

Wikipedia also contains information about some liberal list named Stop the Decline (Fermare il Declino): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_the_Decline. Are there any more information about it in English? Can it join, for example, Monti coalition?

[Keystone Phil]

Oops. I clearly missed where Grillo stated that the door was again closed to Civil Revolution. Interesting.

As for Stop the Decline, it was founded by several economists with a focus on fiscal matters (reduction of debt and taxes as well as privatization). In case it wasn't obvious, it's described as a libertarian party. Their Wiki page doesn't have much more information.

[Simfan34]

Sounds perfect for the Monti alliance