Congressional Special Election (last call! unstickied after NY-27 final results)

[GeorgiaModerate]

The fact that there is an undecided house race, so long after the election, would really bother me, if not for the fact that it will probably lead to one of the worst types of social conservatives of modern times not being seated. The first Al Franken senate race must have been hell.

How about a Senate race that took 20 months to resolve?  Some of us here are old enough to remember this one: https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Closest_election_in_Senate_history.htm.

10 months, not 20.

Duh, thanks for catching that.  Still a long time. 

[jimrtex]

Harris personally directed Dowless' hiring despite warnings that he may have used fraud in 2016. They interacted regularly during the primary according to a former Dowless associate, and said associate claims Dowless and Harris spoke often about the "program."

Press S to spit on political grave.

S

I bet we could use an anecdote about an unrelated Bladen county election in 2012 about now.

The reason that Jon David, the Republican DA for the district that includes Bladen County, referred the concerns to the NCSBE, was that McCrae Dowless had been working to elect Rex Gore who defeated Jon David in 2006. In 2010, McCrae Dowless was working for Butch Pope who defeated Gore in the primary, David defeated Pope in the general election, based on overwhelming Republican support from Brunswick County.

Rex Gore was subsequently prosecuted for his role as DA, when he approved $14,000 in fraudulent travel expenses by an assistant DA between Elizabethtown and Bolivia. Gore plea bargained for a sentence that left him with his law license.

[jimrtex]

You’re really, really reaching here. The dems are not the ones at fault here, no matter the mental gymnastics you keep trying to pull.

Michael Cogdell said that McCrae Dowless and Horace Munn used to be friends.

[cg41386]

Okie dokie

[SteveRogers]

Harris personally directed Dowless' hiring despite warnings that he may have used fraud in 2016. They interacted regularly during the primary according to a former Dowless associate, and said associate claims Dowless and Harris spoke often about the "program."

Press S to spit on political grave.

S

I bet we could use an anecdote about an unrelated Bladen county election in 2012 about now.

The reason that Jon David, the Republican DA for the district that includes Bladen County, referred the concerns to the NCSBE, was that McCrae Dowless had been working to elect Rex Gore who defeated Jon David in 2006. In 2010, McCrae Dowless was working for Butch Pope who defeated Gore in the primary, David defeated Pope in the general election, based on overwhelming Republican support from Brunswick County.

Rex Gore was subsequently prosecuted for his role as DA, when he approved $14,000 in fraudulent travel expenses by an assistant DA between Elizabethtown and Bolivia. Gore plea bargained for a sentence that left him with his law license.

So?

[Brittain33]

Harris personally directed Dowless' hiring despite warnings that he may have used fraud in 2016. They interacted regularly during the primary according to a former Dowless associate, and said associate claims Dowless and Harris spoke often about the "program."

Press S to spit on political grave.

S

I bet we could use an anecdote about an unrelated Bladen county election in 2012 about now.

The reason that Jon David, the Republican DA for the district that includes Bladen County, referred the concerns to the NCSBE, was that McCrae Dowless had been working to elect Rex Gore who defeated Jon David in 2006. In 2010, McCrae Dowless was working for Butch Pope who defeated Gore in the primary, David defeated Pope in the general election, based on overwhelming Republican support from Brunswick County.

Rex Gore was subsequently prosecuted for his role as DA, when he approved $14,000 in fraudulent travel expenses by an assistant DA between Elizabethtown and Bolivia. Gore plea bargained for a sentence that left him with his law license.

So?

To be fair, I asked for a random anecdote.

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/PostRoz/status/1076165258488758274

[RenegadeSquirel8]

Come on, Seat #41!

[cg41386]

Joe Bruno tweeted a bunch of goodies last night.

https://twitter.com/joebrunowsoc9/status/1077042725764116486?s=21

[GeorgiaModerate]

Joe Bruno tweeted a bunch of goodies last night.

https://twitter.com/joebrunowsoc9/status/1077042725764116486?s=21

Wow, there's really some damning stuff in that thread.

[henster]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

Why would you want that, other than partisan reasons?  Since the primary looks to have been equally tainted by absentee fraud, starting over with a new primary would be the fairest thing to the voters of the district.

[Badger]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

Why would you want that, other than partisan reasons?  Since the primary looks to have been equally tainted by absentee fraud, starting over with a new primary would be the fairest thing to the voters of the district.

Again, isn't thede SOMETHING of a statute of limitations? There's been  no direct evidence of fraudulent primary ballots (yet), nor did Pittinger raise a challenge after losing ALMOST 6 MONTHS AGO.

Yes, I'd bet the primary was corrupted as well, but thus far nearly all evidence relates to election fraud in the general electio, after Pittinger washd his hands of the matter last summer.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

Why would you want that, other than partisan reasons?  Since the primary looks to have been equally tainted by absentee fraud, starting over with a new primary would be the fairest thing to the voters of the district.

Again, isn't thede SOMETHING of a statute of limitations? There's been  no direct evidence of fraudulent primary ballots (yet), nor did Pittinger raise a challenge after losing ALMOST 6 MONTHS AGO.

Yes, I'd bet the primary was corrupted as well, but thus far nearly all evidence relates to election fraud in the general electio, after Pittinger washd his hands of the matter last summer.

If we were talking about the previous election cycle, I would agree with you.  But this is part of the same (as yet uncompleted) cycle to elect a new Congressman.   I don't see how it could be considered too late to correct such an error.

Another way to look at it:

- If the current result is certified and the House seats Harris, the Democrats will reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the current result is certified, but the House accepts a challenge and seats McCready instead, the Republicans will reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the NCSBE declines to certify and calls a new general election with the same candidates, which Harris will almost certainly lose, the Republicans will again reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the entire tainted election is thrown out and a new election including primary is held, and conducted fairly, the losing side will likely be unhappy -- but there won't be a reasonable case for either side that the election was stolen.

I may have cast my lot with the Democrats, but I'm more interested in fairness and justice for the voters than in partisanship.

[cg41386]

https://twitter.com/joebrunowsoc9/status/1077305701528158209?s=21

[cg41386]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

Why would you want that, other than partisan reasons?  Since the primary looks to have been equally tainted by absentee fraud, starting over with a new primary would be the fairest thing to the voters of the district.

Again, isn't thede SOMETHING of a statute of limitations? There's been  no direct evidence of fraudulent primary ballots (yet), nor did Pittinger raise a challenge after losing ALMOST 6 MONTHS AGO.

Yes, I'd bet the primary was corrupted as well, but thus far nearly all evidence relates to election fraud in the general electio, after Pittinger washd his hands of the matter last summer.

Most of the focus has been on the GE, but hasn’t it been mentioned that the primary numbers in Bladen were very suspicious as well?

[Tender Branson]

Considering all the evidence now, it would be a huge step back for democracy if the SBOE did not order a new election.

What’s taking them so long to order it ? The large-scale voter fraud is extremely clear at this point.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What’s taking them so long to order it ? The large-scale voter fraud is extremely clear at this point.

I'm wondering the same thing. This is a no-brainer at this point.

[Tender Branson]

What’s taking them so long to order it ? The large-scale voter fraud is extremely clear at this point.

I'm wondering the same thing. This is a no-brainer at this point.

Yeah.

Also, how stupid are some people to hand their postal ballots over to random people they don't know to "deliver" them ?

As a frequent postal voter myself, I would only trust someone from my family to deliver it to the postal office or dropoff site, or the postal workers themselves.

[Woody]

What’s taking them so long to order it ? The large-scale voter fraud is extremely clear at this point.

I'm wondering the same thing. This is a no-brainer at this point.

Because the fraud wouldn't have changed the result. If you left out the fraud Harris would still have won. This scheme only affected a couple of ballots, not enough to take out Harris.
Calling a special election would be unfair, it would automatically put the republicans at a disadvantage, with the DCCC bombarding the district with millions of dollars, calling Harris a criminal and making it seem like it was McCready that was the victim here.

[RogueBeaver]

The hearing is in roughly 2 weeks. Special will likely be this spring or summer.

[Badger]

The Dems on the NCSBE need to grow a pair and order a new election before the GOP passes their new bill forcing a new primary. The evidence is overwhelming there is no reason to drag this out further.

Why would you want that, other than partisan reasons?  Since the primary looks to have been equally tainted by absentee fraud, starting over with a new primary would be the fairest thing to the voters of the district.

Again, isn't thede SOMETHING of a statute of limitations? There's been  no direct evidence of fraudulent primary ballots (yet), nor did Pittinger raise a challenge after losing ALMOST 6 MONTHS AGO.

Yes, I'd bet the primary was corrupted as well, but thus far nearly all evidence relates to election fraud in the general electio, after Pittinger washd his hands of the matter last summer.

If we were talking about the previous election cycle, I would agree with you.  But this is part of the same (as yet uncompleted) cycle to elect a new Congressman.   I don't see how it could be considered too late to correct such an error.

Another way to look at it:

- If the current result is certified and the House seats Harris, the Democrats will reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the current result is certified, but the House accepts a challenge and seats McCready instead, the Republicans will reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the NCSBE declines to certify and calls a new general election with the same candidates, which Harris will almost certainly lose, the Republicans will again reasonably feel the election was stolen.

- If the entire tainted election is thrown out and a new election including primary is held, and conducted fairly, the losing side will likely be unhappy -- but there won't be a reasonable case for either side that the election was stolen.

I may have cast my lot with the Democrats, but I'm more interested in fairness and justice for the voters than in partisanship.

I agree with you in principle that this is the way people will react, but it doesn't really address my questions.

First off, I could not care less about what the North Carolina GOP, or the GOP in general thinks. They will blame this as an election theft regardless of how sacrosanct the new election is held. Nor, frankly, should there feelings, or anyone's feelings, govern the legitimacy and process for holding a new election.

Secondly, when Pittinger didn't raise a challenge despite it now coming out that he knew damn well the type of shenanigans coming out of Bladen County from the primary results, but apparently dropped it all out of the sake of party Unity ( and, 10 to 1 he was offered both carrot and stick inducement and threats regarding his post Congressional employment prospects if he raised a fuss, isn't it a little late now that the Republican nominee he ceded to despite obvious fraud has been caught in general election fraud?? For whatever reason he knew about the fraud and didn't follow up on it at all. What gives him even the remotest right 2 reopen the primary now? Again, it cannot be emphasized enough that all indications are he knew exactly how fraudulent the primary results out of Bladen County were and how much that could have turned the primary in his favor, and yet for unknown - - but let's face it, fairly obvious - reasons he chose not to make an issue of it.

Well, if McCready has, it doesn't give him the right to suddenly try to pull one out of the hat for the Republicans. More than anything this just seems like the North Carolina Republican parties modus operandi of trying to Short Circuit Fair democracy in their state for personal gain. And I for one oppose that.

[pantsaregood]

What’s taking them so long to order it ? The large-scale voter fraud is extremely clear at this point.

I'm wondering the same thing. This is a no-brainer at this point.

Because the fraud wouldn't have changed the result. If you left out the fraud Harris would still have won. This scheme only affected a couple of ballots, not enough to take out Harris.
Calling a special election would be unfair, it would automatically put the republicans at a disadvantage, with the DCCC bombarding the district with millions of dollars, calling Harris a criminal and making it seem like it was McCready that was the victim here.

What's your source on the fraud not changing the result? We know that ballots were submitted with results that the voters likely wouldn't have chosen, but that doesn't account for any number of ballots that just weren't submitted due to this operation.

Also, you seem to be implying that something is wrong with calling Harris a criminal. Electoral fraud is a crime. Committing a crime, by definition, makes him a criminal.

McCready isn't the primary victim, either. The voters of NC are the victims.

[NewYorkExpress]

I still think seating Pittenger would be the proper thing to do here, even if isn't legal.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I still think seating Pittenger would be the proper thing to do here, even if isn't legal.

That's absurd.  You can't say with certainty that he would have won a general election in which he wasn't a candidate.  Anything could have happened there.