Day of Prayer Ruled Unconstitutional (user search)
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  Day of Prayer Ruled Unconstitutional (search mode)
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Author Topic: Day of Prayer Ruled Unconstitutional  (Read 10295 times)
TheGreatOne
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« on: April 15, 2010, 09:55:43 PM »

MADISON, Wis. - A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action.

U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote that the government can no more enact laws supporting a day of prayer than it can encourage citizens to fast during Ramadan, attend a synagogue or practice magic.

"In fact, it is because the nature of prayer is so personal and can have such a powerful effect on a community that the government may not use its authority to try to influence an individual's decision whether and when to pray," Crabb wrote.

Congress established the day in 1952 and in 1988 set the first Thursday in May as the day for presidents to issue proclamations asking Americans to pray. The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison-based group of atheists and agnostics, filed a lawsuit against the federal government in 2008 arguing the day violated the separation of church and state.

President Barack Obama's administration has countered that the statute simply acknowledges the role of religion in the United States. Obama issued a proclamation last year but did not hold public events with religious leaders as former President George W. Bush had done.

Crabb wrote that her ruling shouldn't be considered a bar to any prayer days until all appeals are exhausted. U.S. Justice Department attorneys who represented the federal government in the case were reviewing the ruling Thursday afternoon, agency spokesman Charles Miller said. He declined further comment.

Obama spokesman Matt Lehrich said in an e-mail to The Associated Press the president still plans to issue a proclamation for the next prayer day.

"As he did last year, President Obama intends to recognize a National Day of Prayer," Lehrich said.

The American Center for Law and Justice, which represented 31 members of Congress who joined the federal government as defendants, called Crabb's ruling flawed and promised to appeal.

"It is unfortunate that this court failed to understand that a day set aside for prayer for the country represents a time-honored tradition that embraces the First Amendment, not violates it," ACLJ Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow said in a statement.

The Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based group of Christian lawyers, issued a statement saying Crabb's ruling undermines American tradition dating back to the nation's birth.

Freedom From Religion Foundation attorney Richard Bolton didn't immediately return a message seeking comment.

Crabb wrote that her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer. She noted government involvement in prayer may be constitutional if the conduct serves a "significant secular purpose" and doesn't amount to a call for religious action. But the National Day of Prayer crosses that line, she wrote.

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," she wrote. "In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience."

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/nation_world/20100415_ap_federaljudgerulesdayofprayerunconstitutional.html

Should have happened along time ago. 
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TheGreatOne
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Posts: 477


« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 10:16:30 PM »

Why would Thanksgiving be next?  Its not a religious holiday.  
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TheGreatOne
Jr. Member
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Posts: 477


« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 10:17:28 PM »

This thread should get interesting rather quickly.
Yep, that's why I posted it.  Its better than discussing Ron Paul for a week. 
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TheGreatOne
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Posts: 477


« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 12:13:16 AM »

Not going to comment here much, except to say that the idea that Obama is an actual Christian is laughable.  He disdains western culture.
Can I ask you what you beleive Western Culture entails? 
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TheGreatOne
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Posts: 477


« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 12:23:08 AM »

Obama: "We are NO LONGER a Christian Nation"

Hmm, now when did Obama say this? I'd obviously applaud him if he did but you are just fabricating things as usual aren't you?

True.  Obama did say that, sort of.  Stumbling over his words and initially forgetting to say just.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_say_we_are_no_longer.html

Umm, okay.

There is a tape out there of Obama saying exactly what jfcmst claims he did - if edited out of  context.  Taking remarks out of context... .

Actually, here is the exact quote, I did NOT edit his words: "Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

Imagine if King David had proclaimed that to Israelites and lifted up other gods to the same level of the one true God- God would have wiped him and them off the face of the earth.

Why is this so terrible?  He's giving every person a stake in the country, not just Christians.  I don't know why Republicans have this elitist attitude that Christianity ideology must remain Supreme.  We shouldn't have to interpret constitutional law based on the religions of the Founding Fathers.  We don't know if their opinions would have changed or stayed the same.  For god sakes many of the Founding Fathers intended slavery to be a legal institution, and a large minority didn't beleive in the Freedoms of Speech we currently have.   The interpretation of the Constition should be interpreted the way modern society sees fit.   
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TheGreatOne
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Posts: 477


« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 08:42:14 PM »

The only reason why a Christian Elitist would argue to keep the National Day of Prayer is to re-establish Christian dominance in the country.  

The Founding Father argument is irrelevent for anyone with half a brain.  It doesn't matter what the Founding Fathers thought.  They lived in the 1700s and we live in 2010, where society, culture, morals, and economic standards are very different.  Why would we continue to follow old ways of thinking.  We are suppose to advance thought, not remain stagnant.

Also, who cares if Christianity is part of our Nation's heritage?  Slavery is also part of the Nation's heritage, but I don't see any Christians fighting for that policy anymore.  Frankly, I don't beleive Christians would feel the same way if Islam was part of our National Heritage, and the Government closed down to celebrate Ramadan.    
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TheGreatOne
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Posts: 477


« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2010, 07:57:02 PM »

The only reason why a Christian Elitist would argue to keep the National Day of Prayer is to re-establish Christian dominance in the country.  

The Founding Father argument is irrelevent for anyone with half a brain.  It doesn't matter what the Founding Fathers thought.  They lived in the 1700s and we live in 2010, where society, culture, morals, and economic standards are very different.  Why would we continue to follow old ways of thinking.  We are suppose to advance thought, not remain stagnant.

Also, who cares if Christianity is part of our Nation's heritage?  Slavery is also part of the Nation's heritage, but I don't see any Christians fighting for that policy anymore.  Frankly, I don't beleive Christians would feel the same way if Islam was part of our National Heritage, and the Government closed down to celebrate Ramadan.    

Um that's because Islam is not part of our nation's heritage. If we were talking about Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, of course I would say they should celebrate their own Islamic heritage.
I never said Islam was part of our Nation's heritage.  The example was a hypothetical.

Fine, but I'm not okay with it.  I just don't beleive its government's role to publicize religion.  This policy is not about promoting the Country's heritage; its about ingraining religious thought and symbols in our government.  Its also a waste of my tax money.  I shouldn't have to pay so politicians can pray in a Government building.      
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