Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Democratic Hawk]

I'll introduce this bill for BrandonH but I'm omitting the last clause because I can't support getting rid of Medicaid.


Medicare Reform Bill

1. A senior shall be defined as a person age 60 or over.
2. Seniors shall have the right to opt out of medicare and this shall not affect their Social Security benefits.
3. Seniors receiving Medicare benefits shall have the option of using private doctors for services covered by Medicare without penalty.
4. Persons who have paid into the Medicare system shall be elegible for a voucher upon becoming a senior.  The value of the voucher shall be based on past medical history and probablity of future health risks.
5. Employees shall have the option of contributing the 1.45% Medicare Tax into a Retirement Health Savings Account.

Why don't you introduce the Bill with Clause 6? Propose an amendment striking it. The Senate can then determine whether it stands or not

'Hawk'

[MasterJedi]

I'll introduce this bill for BrandonH but I'm omitting the last clause because I can't support getting rid of Medicaid.


Medicare Reform Bill

1. A senior shall be defined as a person age 60 or over.
2. Seniors shall have the right to opt out of medicare and this shall not affect their Social Security benefits.
3. Seniors receiving Medicare benefits shall have the option of using private doctors for services covered by Medicare without penalty.
4. Persons who have paid into the Medicare system shall be elegible for a voucher upon becoming a senior.  The value of the voucher shall be based on past medical history and probablity of future health risks.
5. Employees shall have the option of contributing the 1.45% Medicare Tax into a Retirement Health Savings Account.

Why don't you introduce the Bill with Clause 6? Propose an amendment striking it. The Senate can then determine whether it stands or not

'Hawk'

Because I felt it was horrible and I had the right to introduce it without it. Besides I know this Senate won't get rid of Medicaid and it was a way to save time as well.

[Democratic Hawk]

I'm getting annoyed by all this free trade.  If you want to kill Atlasian industry and labor rights, just do it in one fell swoop.  Doing it country by country is painstakingly slow.

Do you honestly think the Senate will approve free trade to all and sundry in one full swoop? We have both full, and partial, military and economic restrictions on a number of countries. The former of which shouldn't even be considered for free trade agreements at all, the others not without certain 'conditions'

And I've no intention of sitting back and watch Atlasian industry and labor rights erode. I've always made it clear that should protectionist measures be necessary , then it's an option

'Hawk'

[Democratic Hawk]

I'll introduce this bill for BrandonH but I'm omitting the last clause because I can't support getting rid of Medicaid.


Medicare Reform Bill

1. A senior shall be defined as a person age 60 or over.
2. Seniors shall have the right to opt out of medicare and this shall not affect their Social Security benefits.
3. Seniors receiving Medicare benefits shall have the option of using private doctors for services covered by Medicare without penalty.
4. Persons who have paid into the Medicare system shall be elegible for a voucher upon becoming a senior.  The value of the voucher shall be based on past medical history and probablity of future health risks.
5. Employees shall have the option of contributing the 1.45% Medicare Tax into a Retirement Health Savings Account.

Why don't you introduce the Bill with Clause 6? Propose an amendment striking it. The Senate can then determine whether it stands or not

'Hawk'

Because I felt it was horrible and I had the right to introduce it without it. Besides I know this Senate won't get rid of Medicaid and it was a way to save time as well.

I'm not disputing the fact it is horrible nor your right to introduce it as you saw fit. I just think the Bill as the President intended should be considered even if it means my introducing Clause 6 only to vote against it. That's the point I'm trying to make

I've introduced an Atlasian-Jordan Free Trade Bill (in the event of my amendment to the Atlasian-Israel-Jordan Free Trade Bill passing) as per the President's 'terms' yet I expect it could well possibly be subject to my amendment

'Hawk'

[MasterJedi]

Where do I put consitutional amendment suggestions? Here?

Yes please!  Anything to interrupt the monotonous stream of bilateral free trade bills!

Thats an exetremely good point you make. I have one more question before I do though:

Does Bono V. Atlasia II still stand relevant? i.e., can the senate still not pass a minimum wage law for the nation? Can it still not run certain means of production?

This is not the place for asking questions, the debate thread is. This is just for introducing amendments.

Eh, I dont feel like re-typing it, so Ill just skip it. Thanks for telling me for future reference though.

It's called copying and pasting. And the Senate can't pass a minimum wage until the amendment passes, it failed last time.

[Speed of Sound]

Where do I put consitutional amendment suggestions? Here?

Yes please!  Anything to interrupt the monotonous stream of bilateral free trade bills!

Thats an exetremely good point you make. I have one more question before I do though:

Does Bono V. Atlasia II still stand relevant? i.e., can the senate still not pass a minimum wage law for the nation? Can it still not run certain means of production?

This is not the place for asking questions, the debate thread is. This is just for introducing amendments.

Eh, I dont feel like re-typing it, so Ill just skip it. Thanks for telling me for future reference though.

It's called copying and pasting. And the Senate can't pass a minimum wage until the amendment passes, it failed last time.

Yeah, im even feeling too lazy for that. Im aware of that, but I wanted to know if the simple striking of the free market line in Article I, Section 5, line 4 would be enough to make a national minimum wage legal.

[Peter]

The Court actually rejected the free market argument in Bono v. Atlasia II. Simply put, the Court ruled that no enumerated power encompasses the power to set a minimum wage.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why does the Senate hate Local Government?

[jerusalemcar5]

Why does the Senate hate Local Government?

Why does the Senate hate respect and honor?  That is a better question.  Hopefully I will be able to fix that if elected, but Keystone Phil said I would not be entering the Senate and I'm still waiting because he might just have a trick up his sleeve.

[Ebowed]

This is open to suggestions.

Rebellion Aid Bill

1. $750 million in monetary aid is given to the Government of the Northeast to help it in restoring harm done by the recent anti-Atlasia rebellion in the states of Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Jersey.
2. $25 million in monetary aid is given to the Government of the Mideast to help it in restoring harm done by the above mentioned rebellion in the District of Columbia and the state of Maryland.
3. The Senate of Atlasia expresses its heartfelt grief for the friends and families of the 270 people who died in the violence of the rebellion.

[jerusalemcar5]

This is open to suggestions.

Rebellion Aid Bill

1. $750 million in monetary aid is given to the Government of the Northeast to help it in restoring harm done by the recent anti-Atlasia rebellion in the states of Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Jersey.
2. $25 million in monetary aid is given to the Government of the Mideast to help it in restoring harm done by the above mentioned rebellion in the District of Columbia and the state of Maryland.
3. The Senate of Atlasia expresses its heartfelt grief for the friends and families of the 270 people who died in the violence of the rebellion.

No damage was officially reported in Delaware and Maryland, so scratch those.  Besides that sounds good.  Well maybe a little less for Maryland.

[Ebowed]

Open to suggestions.

Treasonous Rebellion Bill

1. The following acts are hereby declared Acts of Treason.
a.) Rebellion, defined as the use of military forces to overthrow the Federal or any Regional government of Atlasia.
b.) Aiding of a rebellion, defined as the fully knowing and intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to a person or group seeking to engage in rebellion.
c.) Terrorism, defined as the unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the federal and/or regional governments of Atlasia.

2. Sentencing of an above defined Act of Treason shall be by the presiding Justice; he may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
a.) Up to a lifetime ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
b.) Up to lifetime incarceration in an Atlasian Fantasy Prison.
c.) A fine of up to $1,000,000,000 in fantasy currency.

3. Rights of the defendant.
a.) The defendant shall not be denied the access to adequate legal counsel in the form of an upstanding, active citizen of Atlasia. The defendant also has the right to waive their right to legal counsel.
If the defendant requests legal counsel, but is unable to secure his own adequate legal counsel according to the stipulations above, the presiding Justice shall request the chief judicial officer of the Region which said Defendant resides in, to serve as legal counsel to represent the defense. The chief judicial officer of the Region shall have the right to refuse such a request.
b.) If there is no chief judicial officer of said Region or if the chief judicial officer refuses this request, the Senior Senator of the Region shall be appointed as chief legal counsel, or if there is no Regional senator, the Senior Senator of the District in which Defendant resides in shall be appointed as chief legal counsel.
If the Senior Senator of the Region or District, as stated above, and the Defendant are the same person, then the Junior Senator of the Region shall be appointed as chief legal counselor, or if there is no Regional senator, the Junior Senator of the District in which Defendant resides in shall be appointed as chief legal counsel.
c.) For this clause, active citizen is defined as someone who voted in the last federal election and upstanding citizen is defined as someone who is presently, or who has previously, held elected office in Atlasia.
d.) The defendant shall have the right to a speedy trial as defined in Amendment 3 to the Constitution. In addition to this Amendment, the following section will be used as definition of a speedy trial:
(I) If a brief by the Plaintiff is not filed within one week (7 days) of the presiding Justice opening the trial against the defendant, the case will be dismissed and all charges will be dropped.
(II) A one week (7 days) leniency period may be granted by the presiding Justice by request of the Plaintiff, but any further delays may not be granted by the presiding Justice, except in the case of grave illness or publicly announced absence from the forum.

[Democratic Hawk]

I formally request that the President of the Senate and the PPT agree to bumping the Rebellion Aid Bill and the Treasonous Rebellion Bill up the Senate agena

'Hawk'

[Ebowed]

Seeing as the Northeast Governor has graciously refused to accept federal money to aid in fixing rebellion damage, it should accordingly be removed from the relevant bill

I've also added a "rights of the defendant" section to the treason bill.

[Peter]

Regarding Consolidated electoral reform legislation:

Section 7 contains an unnecessary self-reference, but its only an annoyance as opposed to an actual problem

Section 8:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is actually a logical contradiction - given that an election could start at say 8 pm Thursday, then according to the first sentence, the candidacy declaration deadline is 8 pm Thursday the week before. However, the section in parentheses sets the candidacy declaration deadline at midnight Thursday the week before. God knows how the Court would bypass this absurdity, so I suggest we save them the hassle.

In order to alleviate this problem, please delete the parentheses in both clauses and then insert between "before the" and "commencement of the election" the words "earliest possible" in both clauses.

Section 10, Clause 3 of the Act refers to Section 12, where it should refer to Section 11 because of the effects of renumbering.

It would also be advisable to repeal all operative sections of previous electoral legislation.

[Democratic Hawk]

Regarding Consolidated electoral reform legislation:

Section 7 contains an unnecessary self-reference, but its only an annoyance as opposed to an actual problem

Section 8:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is actually a logical contradiction - given that an election could start at say 8 pm Thursday, then according to the first sentence, the candidacy declaration deadline is 8 pm Thursday the week before. However, the section in parentheses sets the candidacy declaration deadline at midnight Thursday the week before. God knows how the Court would bypass this absurdity, so I suggest we save them the hassle.

In order to alleviate this problem, please delete the parentheses in both clauses and then insert between "before the" and "commencement of the election" the words "earliest possible" in both clauses.

Section 10, Clause 3 of the Act refers to Section 12, where it should refer to Section 11 because of the effects of renumbering.

It would also be advisable to repeal all operative sections of previous electoral legislation.

Thanks . I'll make the appropriate adjustments although I did point out on the FACE thread that I wasn't sure exactly how to best incorporate the points 2) and 3) that you raised into the consolidated legislation, so I proceeded as best as I understood

'Hawk'

[Q]

Section 7 contains an unnecessary self-reference, but its only an annoyance as opposed to an actual problem

lol

[Democratic Hawk]

Section 7 contains an unnecessary self-reference, but its only an annoyance as opposed to an actual problem

lol

Section 7 is how it stands from the original ESRA, so I decided to just leave it

'Hawk'

[Democratic Hawk]

My CESRB has been withdrawn by the PPT at my request, it is my intention to reintroduce it once I've "fixed" it . My apologies. This legislation is proving more tricky than I'd ever envisaged

'Hawk'

[ilikeverin]

Does anyone know Atlasia's procedure for signing international treaties?  I'm talking multinational treaties that have already been signed by other countries, not the free trade stuff we're doing now, if it makes any difference.

[MasterJedi]

Does anyone know Atlasia's procedure for signing international treaties?  I'm talking multinational treaties that have already been signed by other countries, not the free trade stuff we're doing now, if it makes any difference.

I'm not sure but the Senate probably has to pass it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Does anyone know Atlasia's procedure for signing international treaties?  I'm talking multinational treaties that have already been signed by other countries, not the free trade stuff we're doing now, if it makes any difference.

I'm not sure but the Senate probably has to pass it.

A treaty is same as any other law under our Atlasian constitution.

[Q]

That's a good concept for a bill, Vlad.  It needs a little bit more of the bureacratic trimmings before it's fit for proposal, though, I think.  I'll write my own draft and pm it to you.

Commentary in this thread, please.

[Emsworth]

How much longer should we wait until voting?

IIRC it's 3 days so sometime tomorrow.

Yes, and you (Jerusalemcar) might want to familiarize yourself somewhat with the Senate operating procedures.  It will make your time as a Senator more effective and more enjoyable.

To be fair, the Senate's rules as they stand right now are quite complicated. Towards the end of my term as VP, I had written a shortened version of the rules, keeping nearly everything the same. (The only changes I made involved some rules that, in my experience as presiding officer, were never actually applied.) However, I did not get a chance to submit the rules for the Senate's consideration.

While substantively the same as the old rules, this new version is not even half as long (three and a half pages, as opposed to nine). If the PPT would like me to do so, I could send this version to him.

[Q]

How much longer should we wait until voting?

IIRC it's 3 days so sometime tomorrow.

Yes, and you (Jerusalemcar) might want to familiarize yourself somewhat with the Senate operating procedures.  It will make your time as a Senator more effective and more enjoyable.

To be fair, the Senate's rules as they stand right now are quite complicated. Towards the end of my term as VP, I had written a shortened version of the rules, keeping nearly everything the same. (The only changes I made involved some rules that, in my experience as presiding officer, were never actually applied.) However, I did not get a chance to submit the rules for the Senate's consideration.

While substantively the same as the old rules, this new version is not even half as long (three and a half pages, as opposed to nine). If the PPT would like me to do so, I could send this version to him.

I agree that they are excessively complicated; I was suggesting to the Senator that he take a look at them, because even after more than six months combined time as Senator and President of the Senate, I still get tripped up by them sometimes.

And would you please send me your draft of a new OSPR as well?