Trumpcare Megathread: It's dead (for now)

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Mulvaney had a testy exchange with Sanders & what he effectively said that CBO puts out bad data, is wrong & what not.

Sanders went hard after him that Tom Price appointed Keith Hall for the CBO not a radical Democrat & the integrity of the person is attacked in a vicious way because they don't agree with the results !

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Rand Paul makes the case for Single payer - Bigger the group, more the leverage & lower the price & individuals should be allowed to form groups, scrap the forced work attached insurance & have large groups negotiating the terms of insurance.

CNN reporter asks him aren't you making the case for Single payer, the biggest possible group with the lowest possible prices negotiating together. Rand Paul - Socialism sucks, look at Venezuela, I don't want
Gulag blah blah !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53UEkpONzXs

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The bulk of ObamaCare was passed under normal legislative rules in December 2009, before Brown was elected, on a party line 60 to 39 vote. The reconciliation bill was composed of fairly minor amendments and passed by a narrower margin (several conservadems voted against it).

Okay, believe that single payer wouldn't be like the veterans hospitals, or that its wait times wouldn't mirror the unconsciable wait times that exist in the UK. Just don't come crying to me when you realize your beliefs are incorrect.

The reconciliation bill could have been much more major. And LOL at the idea that no one ever waits for healthcare in the US.

They wait far less than they would under single payer

93.4% of people in the emergency room in the UK are completed treated within 4 hours. That's certainly not true in the US.

http://www.businessinsider.com/comparison-uk-nhs-v-us-private-heathcare-2015-1

US-UK analogy is not fair as most hospitals in UK are government operated. US will have a single payer (if it has) similar to Canada where the medical services are given largely by private agencies but paid for by government, one public insurance for everyone.

Anyways Bernie Sanders won't introduce Medicare-for-all Single payer till Obamacare debate concludes.

“We are going to introduce it literally as soon as we’re through with this debate. I don’t want to confuse the two issues,” Sanders told CNN’s “State of the Union.” “Longer term, we need a Medicare for all,” Sanders told host Jake Tapper.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/340419-sanders-medicare-for-all-proposal-coming-after-obamacare-debate

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Democrats on Thursday afternoon sat out a vote on a proposal for a completely government-run health care system, denouncing it as a ploy designed to score political points against vulnerable red-state Democrats and drive a wedge between the party to distract from the GOP’s health care struggles.  Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.) derided his own amendment as “socialized medicine” that makes up the “heart and soul” of the Democratic vision for health care.

Four Democrats and one independent — Joe Manchin, Heidi Heitkamp, Jon Tester, Joe Donnelly and Angus King — voted with all of the chamber's Republicans against the amendment, which failed 0-57.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/single-payer-health-care-republicans-241035

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Democrats on Thursday afternoon sat out a vote on a proposal for a completely government-run health care system, denouncing it as a ploy designed to score political points against vulnerable red-state Democrats and drive a wedge between the party to distract from the GOP’s health care struggles.  Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.) derided his own amendment as “socialized medicine” that makes up the “heart and soul” of the Democratic vision for health care.

Four Democrats and one independent — Joe Manchin, Heidi Heitkamp, Jon Tester, Joe Donnelly and Angus King — voted with all of the chamber's Republicans against the amendment, which failed 0-57.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/single-payer-health-care-republicans-241035

What a dumbass backfire. What was supposed to catch all these Democrats in a split between alienating the base for opposing single payer vs offending swing voters with reservations about such a costly scheme, instead turned into a golden opportunity to allow swing state moderates up for reelection to go on record opposing single-payer and doing absolutely zilch to offend 99 + percent of the base by allowing the rest of the Democrats to vote present. This is f****** Keystone Cops level legislative strategy

It does show that single-payer is probably a non-starter even if the Democrats control Congress and the Presidency in 2020. The Democrats (and Angus King) who voted against didn't have to do so.

What? Every Democrat you mentioned is facing a tough reelection in a solid Trump state. King is the only one who arguably didn't need to do so.

 When single-payer actually may have a chance of passing, every one of those votes are still up for grabs.

True. King is a weak guy who has balked under pressure before too. Manchin, Heitkamp are from Deep red states, Donnelly, Tester & McCaskill are also from solid red states at the Presidential level. They are all expected to speak against Single Payer. Tester said now is not the time & Manchin said he doesn't support it but is looking into it & studying it.

Donnelly, Manchin, Heitkamp & Tester may lose in 2018, there'll probably be 1 or 2 out of them after 2018 (who can then be pressurized). McCaskill not voting against it is surprising, as is 43 Senators not coming out against it (atleast fearing a backlash). If you have a President Sanders winning with a 7-8% PV margin, with a 60% favorability rating, most of these people will be bullied into submission.

It is just that 60 votes will never come, so Dems need to let go off the filibuster (in which case they can even lose 1/2/3 votes). But then, that is a different debate. I am happy with the results except King who is in a North-Eastern somewhat liberal state which Hillary won & where Sanders' politics is quite popular !

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Lindsey Graham: Obamacare overhaul is 'Bernie Sanders' worst nightmare'

"This is Bernie Sanders' worst nightmare," Graham said in an interview on Breitbart News Saturday on SiriusXM, speaking about his healthcare proposal. "It's either this or we're going to Obamacare and Berniecare. Now, Berniecare is full-blown single-payer socialism. It is his dream and that's where Democrats are going."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/lindsey-graham-obamacare-overhaul-is-bernie-sanders-worst-nightmare/article/2634728

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Alexander presented an outline of the plan to GOP senators at a closed-door lunch on Tuesday. It would also allow consumers over age 30 to buy catastrophic health insurance plans — dubbed “copper” plans — as well as $106 million in funding to support Obamacare enrollment, according to Senate aides familiar with the plan. The new funding would be collected from existing insurance user fees and be used to provide states grants to help people enroll in catastrophic plans. The deal would make it a little easier for states to get Obamacare waivers, called 1332s. Instead of only being allowed to approve insurance plans that are “as affordable as” existing Obamacare coverage, they could approve plans with “comparable” affordability. The agreement would also make procedural changes to the way states apply for the waivers in an attempt to speed up the approval process. At a Democratic lunch meeting, Murray described the agreement as a deal "in principle" and Democrats seemed "receptive" to the broad contours of what Murray and Alexander had reached, according to Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut. "The devil is certainly in the details when you start talking about flexibility and copper plans," Murphy said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/alexander-and-murray-say-theyve-struck-bipartisan-obamacare-deal-243872

“That's a very good solution,” Trump said. “We think it's going to not only save money, but give people much better healthcare with a very, very much smaller premium spike.” Later, in a speech Tuesday evening to the Heritage Foundation, Trump took credit for the negotiations, saying that Democrats had “responded to [his] call for them to take responsibility for their Obamacare disaster and work with Republicans to provide much-needed relief for the American people.” “I commend the bipartisan work done by Sens. Alexander and Murray,” he said, but he added: “I continue to believe Congress must find a solution to the Obamacare mess instead of providing bailouts to insurance companies.”

In addition to the market stabilization steps — which Democrats have been urging for months — the Alexander-Murray deal would make it easier for states to get out of some of the federal insurance rules set up by the 2010 law. “It does not change the essential health benefits. It does not change the requirement for preexisting conditions,” Alexander said Thursday. “But it does give states significant new flexibility in terms of offering policies." States could, for example, expand eligibility for catastrophic health plans that have very high deductibles and lower premiums. Currently, such plans are limited to people under 30. The Alexander-Murray deal would also make it easier for states to get approval from the federal government to experiment with new healthcare programs, a process that currently can take years.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-obamacare-bipartisan-deal-20171017-story.html

This is a terrible deal if they are going to waive key ACA provisions, allow states to do as they please & introduce these junk plans !

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This won't pass. No sane Democrat will vote for this as it guts key ACA provisions, allows junk insurance to be sold & gives states multiple waivers.

Obamacare as people know it will be dead. This will be a new modified, more conservative version. It is like a Graham Cassidy bill, only it doesn't penalize the blue states & doesn't approach a block-grant approach to the fund being raised.

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This won't pass. No sane Democrat will vote for this as it guts key ACA provisions, allows junk insurance to be sold & gives states multiple waivers.

Obamacare as people know it will be dead. This will be a new modified, more conservative version. It is like a Graham Cassidy bill, only it doesn't penalize the blue states & doesn't approach a block-grant approach to the fund being raised.

All 48 senate democrats support it. It has my support as well.

No they don't. Why would Democrats vote to guy the ACA & condemn more people to bankruptcy & in some states people will die as a result of this.

Why not support Graham Cassidy then? The Devil is in the details, but some of the waivers, state options & junk insurance scheme is effectively ending ACA & taking it into a worse direction. Again, the devil is in the details, so let us see, but it doesn't look good as a plan.