Labor Party Standing Committee thread: Endorsement voting

[LastVoter]

Very important that everyone votes in the upcoming election, we have a lot of labor candidates running.

[LastVoter]

You guys better defeat the primary system, we have IRV voting for a reason.

[LastVoter]

You guys better defeat the primary system, we have IRV voting for a reason.

I will abolish IRV via Executive Order.

I prefer a NZ style parliament myself.

[LastVoter]

How about 'Stand with the working Atlasian', with 'Stand with real left-wingers' kept in abeyance for joint Lib-Lab efforts or if there isn't a Liberal candidate or something? The 'real' in those situations is a bit of a meaningless buzzword but better use it that way than to sow discord between two parties that by rights should be two hands--the Liberals to advocate for responsible and sane business and the idea of an open and mutually respectful and tolerant society, us to advocate for the working class and for those not fortunate enough to be a part of it.

This should always be our slogan, look at the party's name.

[LastVoter]

Agreed!

The Senate poll's not looking very good. None of us are currently in the top 5.

Seems to me like mostly right-wingers voted so far. Everything depends on how liberals will vote.

[LastVoter]

I would like to take a caucus vote on cross-endorsing the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket.

In return, Napoleon has agreed to help us elect or reelect Labor candidates in seats where we have a shot at winning and recruit a broad slate of leftist and center-leftist members across the country to build a bench and serve as political operatives.

In essence, this vote is the first step towards a medium-term electoral nonaggression pact, while keeping our distinct Labor and Liberal party identities and platforms.

This vote begins immediately and will end in twenty-four hours' time or after either the Ayes or the Nays command a majority (11) of the whole caucus, whichever happens first.

We can discuss second preferences and finding a new Vice-Chairman after this.

VOTE ON ENDORSING NAPOLEON AND KALWEJT FOR PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT

[X] Aye
[ ] Nay

That's not a lot of time.

[LastVoter]

But really what is our plan to winning elections again and becoming relevant. The senatorial election was not a good one. I don't think we've ever had a majority or a plurality in Senate yet. And it seems like this is the second election where presidency will be out of our hands.

[LastVoter]

Nay

[LastVoter]

Disappointed because of the dismal turnout or the fact that the resolution just squeezed by?

More the former than the latter, but the latter's a little concerning as well.

I think before next election we should send out PM's reminding people to vote, but we did do better than the liberal party in getting turnout in the Senate election.

[LastVoter]

In my opinion we should look for a new candidate outside the party instead of endorsing the Liberal candidate. It seems like Tweed is doing everything possible to make himself unelectable unfortunately.

[LastVoter]

I would like to ask a chairman to hold a vote on finding/fielding a new candidate to the left of the liberal party but less extremist/more electable than tweed.

Something like this:

Should we try to field our own candidate or recruit a new presidential candidate to endorse?
[]yes
[]no

[LastVoter]

Someone like Lief, Al or even the pair of lovers known as BRTD and Opebo.

[LastVoter]

Aye

[LastVoter]

Seatown,

Might it not be Tweed who is personally unelectable, but that a candidate lacking in involvement and results is unelectable?

Like, are you serious? I don't even think Al is registered here.

I am just throwing out some names. It's possible that if a candidate gets drafted by Labor he will be active.

[LastVoter]

Looks like we don't have an actual platform too, since we got sidetracked by Earl's platform since we were going to endorse him for the first election. We have some bits though.

Simfan, I'm eating a delicious spicy potato samosa. I actually don't respond well to red meat, though I love fish and am going to see about having some nice trout later in the night.

Barnes, I entirely agree with your assessment. How about this for the beginning of our platform:

Government is a function arising out of society in order to mediate between different groups within the society and is given the power to ensure, ideally, that no part of society is in a position of absolute dominance over the others. Of course, it doesn't always work that way. Redistribution is an attempt to correct for human error within this system. The human error's name is susceptibility to tribalism and greed.

However, within the system of a government set up to ensure a certain measure of equality in the treatment of the people through the codification of customs into theoretically blind laws, there must be a preferential option for those who do not have recourse to other means of social and cultural involvement: The elderly, the children, the disabled, and, especially, the poor. It is for this reason that a truly socialist and Labor party pursues ideas of, to a certain extent, redistribution even when it is not required to address some particularly glaring flaw. The effect of this is to among other things bring to the forefront a cultural discussion and dialectic that forms the culture and the society into an exuberant dance around ideals of freedom and justice, equality and privilege, rich poverty and wasted wealth.

Hatman, of course we are somewhat hypocritical but at the same time self-aware and hence in a way fundamentally honest and good-hearted Fabians! That's part of the fun!

If it might help you, this is the rough draft I proposed when I founded the SDC :

Here is the idea for a basic platform :
- We support an active involvement of the State in the economy, in order to establish a fair repartition of wealth, to protect the neediest citizens against destitution and to guarantee everybody a universal access to basic services like health and school.
- We support tough regulations on businesses, in order to avoid corporate abuses of power and behaviours detrimental to workers or consumers.
- We support strict gender, racial, religious equality, to be enforced through means that keep the society united. We refuse to split the national community into sub-communities and commit to treat equally every citizen.
- We support a person's freedom to do everything that doesn't harm himself or another person. We believe that the government's job isn't to impose a moral code, even if such moral code is supported by a majority. We commit to protect religious freedom, and also the freedom not to believe.
- We support environmental legislation that will help Atlasia contributing to the reduction of global warming and ensure for every citizen a better quality of life.
- We support a Human Rights diplomacy, based on the idea that every world citizen yearns to live free. We refuse developing friendships with dictators in the name of selfish national interests. We also refuse neoconservative theories, and believe that Atlasia's job is not to uniterally implement regime changes.

It's very brief and vague, but it could serve as a base for further developments.

I think we should take either of those and put it on the first page so people know what our party is about instead of searching through many pages like I had to.

I'd like to add - we support nationalization of utilities and energy sectors of the economy.

[LastVoter]

If this party endorses Napoleon, it obviously has no reason to exist.

Vote for Tweed, comrade.

Run on your own ticket and we'll endorse and vote for you. Tweed is a deadweight that would even lose to clarence.

[LastVoter]

Recent polling shows Clarence and Tweed tied. The left traditionally under polls, too. Furthermore, that was with Liberals voting Clarence in the poll to make it look like our ticket should drop out and endorse them. I do not agree with your conclusion.

Furthermore, Xahar is right about one thing. One of the main points of JCP dissolution was to have more competition. That goal is not met if all left-of-center parties simply endorse one ticket.

Labor members also voted for Clarence over Tweed. I think you are much more qualified and interested candidate than Tweed, that's why you should drop him. Just look at it this way: You are campaigning, compared to Tweed who probably visits this board once a week.

[LastVoter]

I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.

I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

[LastVoter]

I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.

I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.

No, the problem will be there if Labor dies and enough Labor members join Liberals - Liberal image changes because they are a small party, right-Liberals join the Whigs and Atlasia becomes a one-party state, because the left is divided and the right is with everybody that is at all to the right of center voting for Whigs. That means the right-wingers get one freebie of an election until left redefines itself. Also there will be a right-wing Senate to enact the will of that President. And don't blame it on me, some of the Labor members do not even want to consider endorsing you if you read the thread.

[LastVoter]

You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably.

? So you are endorsing a two-party state?

[LastVoter]

I, for one, will not be preferencing the Tweed ticket

Anyway, Tweed has said he's open to preferencing other candidates despite his personal dislike of the IRV system. I'm sure he can be convinced to give his second preference to the Napoleon/Kalwejt ticket. Mutual second preferencing is the best bet for both tickets and for all progressives.

This is what I've been trying to argue for.

I don't think anybody wasn't going to preference Napoleon/Kalwejt in their second preference who is voting for Tweed(except for Tweed himself). We need to find an acceptable left candidate for the entire Labor party that will campaign however. I think it's very important to do it because otherwise we risk losing our identity and eventually splitting as a party, and some of our members will join the Liberal party, which could potentially result in right-wing members of Liberal party leaving and resulting in an even bigger disaster than we currently have.

I don't know why you would say that. Are the Liberals losing their identity for splitting between AndrewCT and Labor candidates? We will have to work together to defeat the Whigs.

No, the problem will be there if Labor dies and enough Labor members join Liberals - Liberal image changes because they are a small party, right-Liberals join the Whigs and Atlasia becomes a one-party state, because the left is divided and the right is with everybody that is at all to the right of center voting for Whigs. That means the right-wingers get one freebie of an election until left redefines itself. Also there will be a right-wing Senate to enact the will of that President. And don't blame it on me, some of the Labor members do not even want to consider endorsing you if you read the thread.

The Liberals are not a small party. We are in fact the largest party. Liberals will not join the Whigs. Some Labor members wont vote for me and some wont vote for Tweed. Unlike Tweed I have been an ally to the Labor Party, campaigning for Snowstalker and others. Tweed hasn't helped support the Left.

More Labourites voted than the Liberals in the last election

[LastVoter]

You' ll be somewhere behind Bgwah/Tweed and last cycle's Bgwah/Napoleon but probably.

? So you are endorsing a two-party state?

No. What in the world makes you think that? I was talking about write ins that I always end up including somewhere on my ballot.

I'm confused why write-ins?

[LastVoter]

Labor candidates did not campaign through PM, that's why. We didn't have any Liberal candidates getting out the vote.

Write ins are an expression of support.

I didn't even know that you were allowed to campaign through PM until very recently because I haven't gotten any PM's related to Atlasia since I joined it. But after bgwah has pointed that campaigns traditionally PM'd people I will try to do that in my future campaigns and will also try to register some left-leaning Atlas posters to the game.

[LastVoter]

Do we have anyone that could run? There was Snowy, but he dropped out.

We could always try to draft an independent left-winger like BRTD or lief or someone else(look at homelycooking's list of independents). My top choice would be bgwah, but he doesn't want to leave Tweed.

[LastVoter]

We really don't need a candidate--most of us are already split between Napoleon and Tweed.

Also, I may be on a ticket, but not necessarily on the top.

The split of the labor party is going to bring it down, this is why it's necessary that we get a candidate.