October 2017 Federalist Party Convention - Partial Results

[Pragmatic Conservative]

As difficult as it is I third the motion against Oakvale. As a party we value many opinions and views but as a party we have to be able to trust all are candidates to uphold are parties values and fight for the greater good for Atlasia. Sadly Oakvales past "trolling" and attacks do not suggest that we can trust him as an active member of our party. He has not shown he is a changed man and thus I believe it is time to support his expulsion from our party.

[fhtagn]

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This doesn't mean, "all players that aren't jerks". This means all players. That includes me. That includes you. That includes Oakvale. I truly do not feel the argument given is enough to warrant expulsion from the party. I feel it is unfair that you are delivering an ultimatum, because we obviously don't want to lose you, but it is not right to expel him.

[Leinad]

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This doesn't mean, "all players that aren't jerks". This means all players. That includes me. That includes you. That includes Oakvale. I truly do not feel the argument given is enough to warrant expulsion from the party. I feel it is unfair that you are delivering an ultimatum, because we obviously don't want to lose you, but it is not right to expel him.

Oakvale has never given a damn about welcoming players to the game, and his only "contributions" for the last couple years have been obsessive hatred for people like Yankee. My ultimatum about leaving isn't a threat to put anyone in any "unfair" positions, and I'm sad that you see it that way, I genuinely cannot support a party that supports someone like Oakvale.

[Oakvale]

Friends, Federalists,

I will, in the main, leave other members of the Party to discuss this bizarre vendetta among themselves, but if I could be permitted I will briefly defend myself against the spurious and cheap attacks on my integrity launched by this man.

Leinad has decided that my membership of this party - a party that includes among its ranks former communists, liberal Democrats and other assorted ideological quirks - is invalid or improper on, apparently, the grounds that I am too mean, or something. These adolescent histrionics are not, in and of themselves, of any particular interest. But when I see otherwise reasonable and respected members of this movement signing on to his unhinged motion, I am compelled to comment.

He talks, friends, about "discussing at length" my membership of the Federalist Party behind the scenes. How lovely. How charming. How transparent. Is there anything grubbier than someone running around in the shadows, desperately slandering and smearing in a last-ditch attempt to boot a Federalist in good standing from the party? He is so threatened by membership in this party that he feels the need to scuttle about shrieking to anyone who'll listen in an attempt to strong-arm party leaders into eliminating me.

I am, I suppose, glad, at last, that his one man campaign against me has emerged blinking into the light of day, where it can be exposed for the farce it is.

I was not active in Atlasian politics for much of Leinad's service in regional or federal office so cannot fairly comment on his record - for all I know, he was an exemplary public servant. It would be pleasant if, after a career spanning decades of game time, he could do me the same modest courtesy, but I no longer expect reason from some quarters. I do not know Leinad and have never had any significant interaction with him. Likewise he does not know me and is not qualified to assail my character. But, I'm an "asshole", he squawks, in statesmanlike manner. Well, he's entirely entitled to his opinions, of course. No matter. I've been called worse things by better men.

I must admit, my friends, he's right on one thing - Yankee and I have mauled the living sh!t out of each other for years in the most brutal way - but behind the scenes we've always been cordial and friendly, able to put aside the theatre and drama and enjoy each other's company, reminiscing about old times. The President and I went through a bitter and divisive, and often personal, campaign, but we both realised we had more in common than not, and I enthusiastically and unhesitatingly whipped votes for her re-election. Soon, I'll be, without reservation, voting for - believe it or not - Mr. YoungTexan for the Senate, after a truly acrimonious and bloody political dispute evolved into a relationship of understanding and mutual respect.

 The ability to separate politics and personality is important. More than important, it's crucial. I'd suggest this is a skill that poor old Leinad could do well to develop. He'll be a happier person, and a better Federalist, for it. Trust me.

In his vicious tirades, Leinad accuses me of "not sharing the values" of this Party. No one would ever accuse me of being the most orthodox Federalist around. But - as Yankee, among many others, can readily attest, I've long been one of the most vocal opponents of the Communist Party in this game. The Federalists are the conservative opposition to Communism. I am, thus, a Federalist, and proud to be so. My first re-entry into Atlasia after a lengthy period of retirement was to vote for - and to campaign for - dfw in his stunning upset victory for the Presidency. My vote is always counted for the Federalist candidate. I'm with you when it counts, and will be with you when it counts in the House of Representatives.

He or me, he says. Well. I will make no such narcissistic declaration. I have no issue sharing a political party with Leinad. All political parties are, to varying extents, big tents, and I've fought in the trenches alongside worse men. What of it? I'm a big boy, I can handle someone not liking me. I'd rather that wasn't the case, but I'll learn to live with it. There are far, far more important issues at stake.

I will, of course, accept whatever decision the party makes. I am confident, however, that the overwhelming majority of the membership will see this histrionic charade for what it is. In the extraordinary event that a major political party sees fit to expel its member, it should, surely, be for repugnant crimes or misdemeanours, not dramatic posturing from a single member.

Thank you.

[Leinad]

I'll ignore the rest of the phony bullsh!t, but I need to respond to this, because it kind of makes my point:

In his vicious tirades, Leinad accuses me of "not sharing the values" of this Party. No one would ever accuse me of being the most orthodox Federalist around. But - as Yankee, among many others, can readily attest, I've long been one of the most vocal opponents of the Communist Party in this game. The Federalists are the conservative opposition to Communism. I am, thus, a Federalist, and proud to be so.

If you think this party is just here to be "not Labor" you clearly have no idea what we're doing. We need to stand for something, we can't just be "not Labor" and act like that's enough.

I still say Oakvale has done nothing but go on obsessive quests to screw people over in this game, until he gets bored and goes back to making fun of us on #atlasforum and AAD--imo it's very naive to say he will change, just because he's making speeches (remember, anyone can make a speech that says what you want to hear lol--I'll give Oakvale some credit, he's good at pandering ). But it all adds up to this: I see no reason for us to support someone like that to office. And there's nothing narcissistic about it--if the party is that shallow and only cares about "not Labor," I really have no business being here. Hopefully enough people agree with me.

[Oakvale]

My man, I'm not sure if it's slipped your mind but I ran a primary campaign based largely on my precise concern that this party was in danger of becoming merely "not Labor" - as everyone here will remember! I was criticised by many in the party for making  conservatism the very focal point of my campaign.

Don't be absurd -  my point was that I have worked with the Party when not a member to oppose Communism -  and recall in particular the dark DemPGH/TNF era - and, as someone returned to Atlasia find my natural closest home in the Federalists.

It is a shame you don't have the intellectual courage to respond to the rest of my speech. Oh well.  I will leave it there - friends, fellow Federalists, when this motion comes to a vote you know the right thing to do. I have faith in your wisdom, and dread naught.

[Leinad]

If anyone actually believes this bullsh!t act, my lack of faith in humanity will reach a new low.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

If anyone actually believes this bullsh!t act, my lack of faith in humanity will reach a new low.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

If anyone actually believes this bullsh!t act, my lack of faith in humanity will reach a new low.

I don't want to come across as rude but you've only been in the party for a week and there is a lot behind this that has been going on for years, there is a lot more to all of this than Leinad is openly letting on (battles that have been going on both in and out of the party since I joined and well before, too). So I'm not sure why you would empty quote this......

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Given what I have seen and recently received, it seems that an expulsion vote would cause more harm than good to the party. The bylaw says this: "2. Expulsion. A member may be expelled from the party by majority vote if that member behaves in such a way as to the detriment of the party. Requests for an expulsion vote must be seconded." Oakvale has not behaved in a way as to the detriment of the party, with less than a week left until the House elections, the potential expulsion of Oakvale would throw our House slate into possible chaos and would serve to literally harm the party, you could argue the expulsion of Oakvale at this time is far more harmful to the party than keeping him and electing him as a Representative.

I request that the Party Leadership not go through with any vote until the opposing side can A. gather up evidence of Oakvale causing detriment to the party and B. an actual solution can be came up with in the case that he is in fact expelled, which I hope does not happen. The bylaw does not give any timeline, so I believe this to be reasonable.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

If anyone actually believes this bullsh!t act, my lack of faith in humanity will reach a new low.

I don't want to come across as rude but you've only been in the party for a week and there is a lot behind this that has been going on for years, there is a lot more to all of this than Leinad is openly letting on (battles that have been going on both in and out of the party since I joined and well before, too). So I'm not sure why you would empty quote this......

He’s a party member weighing in on a party matter, I see no reason why he has no right to comment on it. While I’m neutral on this, we shouldn’t limit party members opinions from being shared in general.

Obviously, but it just seems....odd, of course I found out that he had been told a very one sided story so it makes more sense in retrospect, this is the exact reason I have proposed the motion above, as seen below:

Given what I have seen and recently received, it seems that an expulsion vote would cause more harm than good to the party. The bylaw says this: "2. Expulsion. A member may be expelled from the party by majority vote if that member behaves in such a way as to the detriment of the party. Requests for an expulsion vote must be seconded." Oakvale has not behaved in a way as to the detriment of the party, with less than a week left until the House elections, the potential expulsion of Oakvale would throw our House slate into possible chaos and would serve to literally harm the party, you could argue the expulsion of Oakvale at this time is far more harmful to the party than keeping him and electing him as a Representative.

I request that the Party Leadership not go through with any vote until the opposing side can A. gather up evidence of Oakvale causing detriment to the party and B. an actual solution can be came up with in the case that he is in fact expelled, which I hope does not happen. The bylaw does not give any timeline, so I believe this to be reasonable.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Furthermore I point you to this:

"3. Currently, a maximum of five candidates may be endorsed for the House of Representatives. If the Federalist Party has more than this number of incumbent representatives seeking re-election, each of the incumbents may still receive the endorsement of the party. If, on the first Friday prior to the election, the number of declared Federalist candidates is equal to or less than the maximum number of endorsements, no primary election shall be held and those candidates shall automatically receive the endorsement of the Federalist Party. Any Federalist candidates entering the race after this time shall not enjoy the party’s official endorsement. If, on the first Friday prior to the election, the number of declared Federalists is larger than the maximum number of Federalist endorsements, a primary election shall be held. The election shall run for three (3) days and shall be decided by public IRV. If the number of declared Federalist candidates is less than the maximum number of endorsements, non-Federalists may receive these remaining endorsements. "
Therefore, Oakvale has already received the Federalist Party endorsement and even if he was expelled, this endorsement stands.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

And with all of this, I am sure people are mad at me for what I have pointed out and that they feel all of this is my fault in general, with this erratic dfw will be erratic some more and will now be leaving the party for a while, shalom, ciao, etc.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

I too support an expulsion of Oakvale from the federalist party of Atlasia.

[FairBol]

We cannot expel people because we don't like them. That is not how it works, nor should it be. I cannot support the expulsion on these grounds, and I truly hope you change your mind because we value you as much as we do everyone else in the party.

You know good and well that is not my reasoning, and please don't try to act like it is.

And I really really hope you guys change your mind, because I value being in the Federalist Party (this is why I didn't simply leave, and why I discussed this at length with all of you privately to try to find another solution). But the Federalist Party I know not in a party that just supports any anti-Atlasian asshole who happens to be "anti-socialist" or whatever, even though the only times he has cared about Atlasia has been to screw someone over--and he's not our ally because sometimes he happens to try to screw over Truman, too.

OK, what the hell did I just walk into? Heh.  Here's what I have to say.  FH is right....we can't expel somebody from the party just because somebody else happens to not get along with them.  The expulsion part of our rules is intended to be used when somebody is actually suspected of major wrongdoing.  We're all working for the same goal here; to make Atlasia better, and to defeat the Labor Party.  To that end, I would ask Leinad and Oakvale to work out their differences in private. 

[Associate Justice PiT]

We cannot expel people because we don't like them. That is not how it works, nor should it be. I cannot support the expulsion on these grounds, and I truly hope you change your mind because we value you as much as we do everyone else in the party.

You know good and well that is not my reasoning, and please don't try to act like it is.

And I really really hope you guys change your mind, because I value being in the Federalist Party (this is why I didn't simply leave, and why I discussed this at length with all of you privately to try to find another solution). But the Federalist Party I know not in a party that just supports any anti-Atlasian asshole who happens to be "anti-socialist" or whatever, even though the only times he has cared about Atlasia has been to screw someone over--and he's not our ally because sometimes he happens to try to screw over Truman, too.

OK, what the hell did I just walk into? Heh.  Here's what I have to say.  FH is right....we can't expel somebody from the party just because somebody else happens to not get along with them.  The expulsion part of our rules is intended to be used when somebody is actually suspected of major wrongdoing.  We're all working for the same goal here; to make Atlasia better, and to defeat the Labor Party.  To that end, I would ask Leinad and Oakvale to work out their differences in private. 

     The issues here go much deeper than differences between two people, FWIW.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

Our Federalist Party is deeply divided over whether or not to expel Oakvale. I know that a lot of these tensions are from long before my time in Atlasian politics, and at the moment I am neutral on this. Therefore, I believe the leadership should move to put this matter to a vote, the motion has been seconded and should be voted on accordingly. We cannot ignore our rules when it pertains to an expulsion of a member.

[fhtagn]

Our Federalist Party is deeply divided over whether or not to expel Oakvale. I know that a lot of these tensions are from long before my time in Atlasian politics, and at the moment I am neutral on this. Therefore, I believe the leadership should move to put this matter to a vote, the motion has been seconded and should be voted on accordingly. We cannot ignore our rules when it pertains to an expulsion of a member.

There is no timeline for when the vote should take place per the party's bylaws. That being said, I am waiting on the opportunity to discuss the situation further with Yankee before we make a decision on when the vote takes place. In the meantime, I would urge Leinad to provide evidence that Oakvale's recent behavior has been a detriment to this party, and really think about the damage this motion causes the party this close to an election. It does not revoke Oakvale's endorsement from the Federalist party, and it causes a further divide than our party needs at this time.

[Enduro]

Leinad has proven time and time again that he has the party's best interests in mind, and that he's constantly trying to do the right thing. Oakvale has not proved either of those things. Everytime I see him on iirc,  he's insulting someone.

Leinad has earned my trust, and I will be voting with him. Frankly, the lack of support for someone who has done so much for us is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Oakvale]

Leinad has proven time and time again that he has the party's best interests in mind, and that he's constantly trying to do the right thing. Oakvale has not proved either of those things. Everytime I see him on iirc,  he's insulting someone.

Leinad has earned my trust, and I will be voting with him. Frankly, the lack of support for someone who has done so much for us is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

What an utterly absurd statement. "Leinad has done a lot for the Party so we must support his unhinged personal vendetta". It is you who should be ashamed of yourself for debasing yourself in such a manner.

[Enduro]

Leinad has proven time and time again that he has the party's best interests in mind, and that he's constantly trying to do the right thing. Oakvale has not proved either of those things. Everytime I see him on iirc,  he's insulting someone.

Leinad has earned my trust, and I will be voting with him. Frankly, the lack of support for someone who has done so much for us is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

What an utterly absurd statement. "Leinad has done a lot for the Party so we must support his unhinged personal vendetta". It is you who should be ashamed of yourself for debasing yourself in such a manner.

The nature of Leinad is to help, and your nature is to destroy. I trust him. Supporting a friend when he's right is hardly debasing myself.

[Oakvale]

Leinad has proven time and time again that he has the party's best interests in mind, and that he's constantly trying to do the right thing. Oakvale has not proved either of those things. Everytime I see him on iirc,  he's insulting someone.

Leinad has earned my trust, and I will be voting with him. Frankly, the lack of support for someone who has done so much for us is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

What an utterly absurd statement. "Leinad has done a lot for the Party so we must support his unhinged personal vendetta". It is you who should be ashamed of yourself for debasing yourself in such a manner.

The nature of Leinad is to help, and your nature is to destroy. I trust him. Supporting a friend when he's right is hardly debasing myself.

Tell me more about my nature, I haven't been psychoanalysed in a while. What a foul thing to say.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

Leinad has proven time and time again that he has the party's best interests in mind, and that he's constantly trying to do the right thing. Oakvale has not proved either of those things. Everytime I see him on iirc,  he's insulting someone.

Leinad has earned my trust, and I will be voting with him. Frankly, the lack of support for someone who has done so much for us is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

This. I've known him for a long time. He'd never do something totally unreasonable. He's a really chill dude, I would like to see a bit more debate on the expulsion issue, but I'm gonna stand by him. I don't know you much, hopefully that changes,  but I trust Leinad more than you, I've seen what he's done for our party and our country.

[Oakvale]

A-ha, I see the behind the scenes campaign is hard at work. Christ. Think for yourself, my friends. This is, without question, the most flagrant and disgusting thing I've seen in a near-decade spent in Atlasian politics.

There currently aren't even enough candidates for the House to fill every seat, let alone enough Federalist candidates. You are being bamboozled by the resentful babblings of a man who thinks I'm a big meanie and would thus rather you elect some random brainless zombie who'll never show up to work instead of me. Is that what we've become?

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Oakvale, I have done my best to defend you through all of this because I really do like you....but maybe you should change your methods some if you really want some to embrace your style and campaigning. I'm not saying hide your feelings (as I am so constantly accused of doing myself), but maybe at least attack people less, don't attack people publicly in your own party I'd say is a golden rule.....This isn't an unsolvable solution but you don't have a golden past (nor do I really) so you can't just expect some in the party to not hate you or at the very least strongly oppose your existence as a candidate of the party. Maybe try reasoning in both PM and here without attacking but strongly making your case as much as possible and maybe apologizing for the attacks and it can all work out.