Mueller report thread - Mueller testimony July 24

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

Onto the IG report.....

Now this I expect to have a couple bombshells, CNN, if you’re interested.

[pbrower2a]

Schiff looks looks the statesman, and Nunes looks the fool.

Schiff turned the discussion in part from corruption to national security, which is an excellent stratagem when it works and it worked!

[ProudModerate2]

Another embarrassment for the Democrats. The left just got smacked up.

It is also absolutely disgusting to see CNN so desperate in wishing, wanting, begging, for trump to be impeached. Trying to twist and wring any fraction of a fraction of evidence to possibly maybe support impeachment. This is journalism? It’s disgusting.

If you want disgusting, desperate journalism, turn to Fox News.

[J. J.]

This is at best open to question and litigation.  There is an OLC opinion from the Nixon era that the President cannot pardon himself: https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download.

Try to stop him. 

[J. J.]

Another embarrassment for the Democrats. The left just got smacked up.

It is also absolutely disgusting to see CNN so desperate in wishing, wanting, begging, for trump to be impeached. Trying to twist and wring any fraction of a fraction of evidence to possibly maybe support impeachment. This is journalism? It’s disgusting.

I look at it this way.  When John Dean says, on CNN, Mueller walked back the most damning comment, Mueller walked back the most damning comment. 

[pbrower2a]

Another embarrassment for the Democrats. The left just got smacked up.

It is also absolutely disgusting to see CNN so desperate in wishing, wanting, begging, for trump to be impeached. Trying to twist and wring any fraction of a fraction of evidence to possibly maybe support impeachment. This is journalism? It’s disgusting.

No. The Left did something that one usually associates with the Right -- taking on the claim to be for national security and asserting that personal morality is essential to good politics.

Everything that Mitt Romney said about Donald Trump in April 2016 has proved true.  

[Nyvin]

The conclusion remains that the heifer was not exonerated.

But there was not even enough evidence to charge. 

No, that wasn't what was stated. Pretty much that only thing protecting Trump is that a sitting President cannot be indicted. Mueller said he could be charged post presidency.

Actually, Mueller said that this was not a factor. 

He directly said it was "The" factor.

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

I’m glad Trump’s boxing gloves are off today in the interviews. He knows he can now unleash after three years of hoaxes, corruption, conspiracies, and fake allegations.

[Nyvin]

I’m glad Trump’s boxing gloves are off today in the interviews. He knows he can now unleash after three years of hoaxes, corruption, conspiracies, and fake allegations.

Rep. Nadler: The President has repeatedly claimed that your report found that there was no obstruction and the it completely and totally exonerated him. But that is not what your report said, is it?
Mueller: Correct. That is not what the report said.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I’m glad Trump’s boxing gloves are off today in the interviews. He knows he can now unleash after three years of hoaxes, corruption, conspiracies, and fake allegations.

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1154125179741724672

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Mueller seeming to have never heard of Fusion GPS is just sad.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I'm sorry, but if you are sincerely positing that this hearing was somehow a political victory for Trump, I can only assume one of two things:

1. You are deaf.
2. Your reactions to the hearing were pre-written, and you're merely copy-pasting the spin now.

Seriously.  Mueller literally said that Trump could be charged after he leaves office, which is consistent with the DoJ not pressing charges against incumbent presidents.  Just how is that a victory?

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'm sorry, but if you are sincerely positing that this hearing was somehow a political victory for Trump, I can only assume one of two things:

1. You are deaf.
2. Your reactions to the hearing were pre-written, and you're merely copy-pasting the spin now.

Seriously.  Mueller literally said that Trump could be charged after he leaves office, which is consistent with the DoJ not pressing charges against incumbent presidents.  Just how is that a victory?

J.J. at least tries to make coherent arguments.  Hair just spouts MAGA talking points.

[HisGrace]

The conclusion remains that the heifer was not exonerated.

But there was not even enough evidence to charge. 

No, that wasn't what was stated. Pretty much that only thing protecting Trump is that a sitting President cannot be indicted. Mueller said he could be charged post presidency.

Actually, Mueller said that this was not a factor. 

No, just today he was asked "the reason that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct" and answered "that is correct". In the hearing with the intelligence committee he also said that they did not reach a determination, which is not in any way contradictory to his comments in the first hearing. Reaching a determination on it was a moot point since they couldn't indict him anyway.

This really shouldn't be controversial because he was stating the obvious. There is no way in hell an employer at a private company wouldn't be charged with obstruction of justice if he told employees under him to lie to federal investigators or threatened witnesses under subpoena. Trump's actions here were textbook obstruction of justice and the only people who don't think so are partisan hacks or people who aren't paying attention.

[HisGrace]

I'm sorry, but if you are sincerely positing that this hearing was somehow a political victory for Trump, I can only assume one of two things:

1. You are deaf.
2. Your reactions to the hearing were pre-written, and you're merely copy-pasting the spin now.

Seriously.  Mueller literally said that Trump could be charged after he leaves office, which is consistent with the DoJ not pressing charges against incumbent presidents.  Just how is that a victory?

I really wouldn't say this is a win for anyone. No one's mind was likely changed by what happened today and there was no new information.

[Crumpets]

I'm sorry, but if you are sincerely positing that this hearing was somehow a political victory for Trump, I can only assume one of two things:

1. You are deaf.
2. Your reactions to the hearing were pre-written, and you're merely copy-pasting the spin now.

Seriously.  Mueller literally said that Trump could be charged after he leaves office, which is consistent with the DoJ not pressing charges against incumbent presidents.  Just how is that a victory?

I really wouldn't say this is a win for anyone. No one's mind was likely changed by what happened today and there was no new information.

I agree that not many people's mind was changed today, but the testimony was not about changing the minds of people watching. It was about giving Democrats the ammunition to build a narrative for the kind of people who don't pay any attention to politics except for when an election is coming up, and have no idea who Mueller is or what Russiagate is. We now have a clip of a former FBI director saying the only reason Trump had not been charged with a crime is because he's the president. And "justice turns a blind eye to those who are rich and powerful" is an extremely potent narrative that Trump used very successfully against Hillary in 2016.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Mueller: "My report doesn't exonerate Trump."

Galaxy-brained Atlas users: "Trump is vindicated."

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Is Mueller suffering from dementia or early stages of Alzheimer's? Yikes, he seemed very confused.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I’m glad Trump’s boxing gloves are off today in the interviews. He knows he can now unleash after three years of hoaxes, corruption, conspiracies, and fake allegations.

Please. Let the deranged old man loose in public more without a script, teleprompter, or handler.

Maybe it will get him the help he needs before it's too late.

[brucejoel99]

So my wifi got cut out during the last 1/3rd of the Judiciary hearing & didn't fully come back until the Intelligence hearing was almost over. Thanks, Comcast!!

Anyway, I just got caught up, & I think the key takeaway from Mueller's testimony today is that he has provided Congress with everything it needs to impeach Trump with the exception (in all likelihood) of public opinion, which, in the end, is the only thing that matters.

[7,052,770]

It's fascinating how the Republican rank and file has gone full-on 1984 and believe that Mueller actually said the literal opposite of what he said, all because Trump tells them that.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Of f***ing course! of course we're getting the "Dems in disarray" headlines! I'm sorry that I'm about to go off on one of my tangents, but listen, anyone who pays attention to my posts knows that in spite of my partisanship, I will quickly own up to something when I fear it will damage Democrats. But this is not one of those circumstances. Did I watch the same thing as everyone else? In what way does this damage Democrats, outside of right wing propaganda, turd-polishing bubbles? Why can't the Democrats ever catch a break from fantastically high expectations being impressed on them? Did Mueller somehow confirm a paranoid right wing fantasy? Not even close! Maybe that's why I'm not particularly anxious about all of this. Like Ghost of Ruin I had measured expectations and came out fairly satisfied. People need to stop looking at Mueller as some sort of savior. He provided a great service in informing the populace about what happened during his inquiry, but that's all he ever was, an investigator. The potential of being spared from Trump was always going to be on Congress and the voting populace.

At worst nothing changes. At best I do think there were some small steps forward from Mueller's testimony. For one thing, he finally offered a rebuttal to Trump and the GOP's desperate conspiracy peddling about both volumes of his report. Republicans were exposed as the pathetic hacks that they are. This is in stark contrast to the Democrats' thought out, factual, objective, and respectable lines of questioning. It was a nice little microcosm of the parties themselves and why drawing any sort of false equivalency between them is asinine. Additionally, the big soundbite is that Trump can be indicted when he leaves office. That is basically the same as saying that he committed a crime in office to me. Democrats should use that to their advantage where they can. Tom Steyer, drop out of the presidential race and air that clip of Mueller saying that across the nation and the internet! Democrats have their own version of "lock her (him) up!" now. The prospect of Trump losing re-election and then being indicted and potentially fitted for a jumpsuit that matches his skin tone (okay, maybe that's still a stretch) should be exciting to those who detest him.  

Is this concern trolling occurring because of Trump displaying his usual undeserved confident delusions? Regardless of what Mueller said, Trump and his party were always going to use their typical playbook of obfuscation, water-muddying, and outright falsehoods. Mueller could have played video footage of Trump raping and murdering someone and it would be spun as a win somehow. Republicans are out of their minds. If anything, to me Trump actually sounded desperate and panicked. It also makes him out to be even more of an paranoid idiot than before. Had he not tried to interfere in the Russian part of the investigation at all, he would actually have been exonerated since the prospect of obstructing justice may not have come up at all. He could have had an actual win, even in spite of Russian meddling being confirmed to have happened, been successful, and continue being as threatening as ever, if not even more! So Trump's "4-D chess skills" are still beyond absurd.

Now don't get me wrong, Mueller's reluctance and lack of enthusiasm didn't make his testimony as dynamic as it could have been (though his style really should be insignificant compared to the substance of his words), and it remains to be seen whether anyone but the usual politically engaged partisans watched or even care about this. But overall, just to have Mueller reinforce the truth should be considered a win enough, and the Democrats did not shoot themselves in the foot or have his testimony "backfire" as some have idiotically speculated about. I certainly don't see this making any more Democrats convinced against opening an impeachment inquiry, I still expect those numbers in favor to slowly climb. Will they be enough to finally start an inquiry, or even get a straight up impeachment declaration? The chances seem about the same. But Democrats still have every right to continue investigating and pursue oversight against the Obstructor-in-Chief. He is corrupt. He is a criminal. There are no two ways about it. This will be a significant part of his inevitably negative legacy, regardless of what happens to him in the future. The Democrats need to do what is right. They more than earned the right to do so with a right that should never have been questioned in the first place. But really the burden should have always been on the Republican Party. He would be in prison and removed from office if his party was an actual political party instead of a personality cult. Trump's only advantage in the face of all of this is the stubbornness of his supporters and the alternate reality they revel in. They are shamefully incapable of logic or rationality, which is unfortunate, but also needs to be accepted. I still doubt that he will ever be removed from office, let alone impeached. And him possibly resigning in the face of all of this becomes even less likely now that he knows he can face consequences when he can no longer be shielded by the Justice Department. So, the Democrats' best option is still to defeat him in 2020, but by no means does discussing the President's corruption and how it has damaged and warped our nation going to become a less important issue to discuss.

[Mr. Illini]

Hopefully Pelosi holds strong and continues to investigate without holding a vote on opening impeachment proceedings.

A vote would either result in a) a narrow passage with swing Dems voting no, thereby weakening Pelosi and the party's standing or b) swing Dems voting yes and getting hammered over it in their next election.

[Tartarus Sauce]

I'm sorry, but if you are sincerely positing that this hearing was somehow a political victory for Trump, I can only assume one of two things:

1. You are deaf.
2. Your reactions to the hearing were pre-written, and you're merely copy-pasting the spin now.

Seriously.  Mueller literally said that Trump could be charged after he leaves office, which is consistent with the DoJ not pressing charges against incumbent presidents.  Just how is that a victory?

I really wouldn't say this is a win for anyone. No one's mind was likely changed by what happened today and there was no new information.

Serious question, since you're largely non-partisan and don't really identify with either party. Is this the most embarrassing song and dance you've seen an American political party undergo during your lifetime in order to cater to the needs of spinning a narrative about their leader? How is the Republican handling of this scandal going in comparison to how Democrats had to defend Clinton during his scandals, for example?

[Badger]

It's fascinating how the Republican rank and file has gone full-on 1984 and believe that Mueller actually said the literal opposite of what he said, all because Trump tells them that.