Far-right leaders/parties in the team Putin and in the team Zelenski
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  Far-right leaders/parties in the team Putin and in the team Zelenski
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Author Topic: Far-right leaders/parties in the team Putin and in the team Zelenski  (Read 638 times)
buritobr
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« on: April 26, 2024, 05:44:13 PM »

team Putin

Orbán
Modi
Marine Le Pen
AfD


team Zelenski

Giorgia Meloni
Morawiecki
Boris Johnson*
Chega
Javier Milei
part of Bolsonaro's supporting base (not himself, who is neutral in this war and visited Putin in Moscow few days before the invasion)

Do you agree with these lists?

I don't think it is easy to include Donald Trump in the team Putin. I believe he is only anti-hawk in this war. Benjamin Netaniahu doesn't have a clear side to. He used to have not bad relations with Putin.

*I don't know if Boris Johnson can be considered "far-right", but he belongs to the right-wing of the Tories and some newspapers had already considered him the "British Trump"


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Storr
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2024, 06:06:14 PM »
« Edited: April 26, 2024, 06:37:03 PM by Storr »

Today I ran across a Carnegie Endowment overview of far-right parties in Europe. It appears the "professionals" mostly agree with your lists, at least when it comes to Europe.
 
https://carnegieeurope.eu/publications/interactive/radical-right-europe-foreign-policy

For Ukraine-Russia it categorized European far-right parties as:

Pro-Russia:

SNS (Slovakia)
Fidesz (Hungary)
Revival (Bulgaria)
AfD (Germany)
FPÖ (Austria)

Inconsistent:

National Rally (France)
PVV (Netherlands)
AUR (Romania)

Pro-Ukraine:

Vox (Spain)
Brothers of Italy
Law and Justice (Poland)
EKRE (Estonia)
Finns (Finland)
Sweden Democrats

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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2024, 06:13:14 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2024, 09:25:44 PM »

Bolsonaro and Bolsonarists belong in neutral/inconsistent. But really, I think it’s something they don’t really care much to have a defined or consistent position.

A good chunk only started being more pro-Zelenskyy after noticing Lula wasn’t aligning that much with Zelenskyy, so they adapt the discourse accordingly in order to antagonize Lula. But when Bolsonaro was president they loved to copy MAGA on the matter and mock the hell out of Zelenskyy, at least the socially conservative hardline base.

Bolsonaro himself started by offending Zelenskyy while in power, only to later once use “freedom to Ukraine” while in foreign soil in order to campaign for external goodwill on the West or something.
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JimJamUK
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2024, 03:51:41 AM »

*I don't know if Boris Johnson can be considered "far-right", but he belongs to the right-wing of the Tories and some newspapers had already considered him the "British Trump"

Absolutely not, he’s not even on the right wing of the Conservative Party (despite his supporters believing he is).
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Zinneke
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2024, 04:30:24 AM »

Boris Johnson is pro-Boris Johnson
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2024, 04:50:38 AM »

Johnson does share certain "Trumpy" characteristics, but many of these are not terribly political.
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buritobr
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2024, 08:23:19 AM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2024, 09:31:59 AM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2024, 10:26:39 AM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?

No, he's just pro-Putin. Don't be ridiculous.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2024, 01:49:08 PM »
« Edited: April 28, 2024, 02:14:28 PM by Stranger in a strange land »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.
On that topic, Sebastian Gorka of all people is somehow pro-Ukraine. I have no idea how he got there and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s for the wrong reasons, but I’m glad he’s at least right on this one issue.
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2024, 04:27:52 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
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Cassius
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2024, 04:41:25 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.
On that topic, Sebastian Gorka of all people is somehow pro-Ukraine. I have no idea how he got there and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s for the wrong reasons, but I’m glad he’s at least right on this one issue.

Gorka is the son of two Hungarians who fled the country after the 1956 uprising, so it’s not especially outlandish that he would be firmly for Ukraine in the present conflict.

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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2024, 05:02:17 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2024, 05:05:33 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress

1. Understood and retracted.

2. Yeah, but he still could have vetoed it or ordered US advisors out of Ukraine. He didn't do either. Instead, he signed off on aid and continued US support for Ukraine.

Oh, and for another example: he also personally bucked Putin by allowing Erdogan to invade Syria, given that the Syrian government (a Russian ally) fought against it.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2024, 05:07:58 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress

1. Understood and retracted.

2. Yeah, but he still could have vetoed it or ordered US advisors out of Ukraine. He didn't do either. Instead, he signed off on aid and continued US support for Ukraine.
Congress had a veto proof majority on aid so it would of been a useless platitude on Trump’s behalf towards Putin
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Libertas Vel Mors
Haley/Ryan
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2024, 05:08:22 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress

1. Understood and retracted.

2. Yeah, but he still could have vetoed it or ordered US advisors out of Ukraine. He didn't do either. Instead, he signed off on aid and continued US support for Ukraine.
Congress had a veto proof majority on aid so it would of been a useless platitude on Trump’s behalf towards Putin

He still could have withdrawn advisors, but he didn't. Or held up the distribution of aid.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2024, 05:11:41 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress

1. Understood and retracted.

2. Yeah, but he still could have vetoed it or ordered US advisors out of Ukraine. He didn't do either. Instead, he signed off on aid and continued US support for Ukraine.
Congress had a veto proof majority on aid so it would of been a useless platitude on Trump’s behalf towards Putin

He still could have withdrawn advisors, but he didn't. Or held up the distribution of aid.
Yeah he just tried to extort Ukraine over aid instead what an ally
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Libertas Vel Mors
Haley/Ryan
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2024, 05:22:41 PM »

You can add the whole MAGA wing of the GOP on the pro-Putin side and Mike Johnson on the pro-Zelenskyy side.

Is Donald Trump really "pro-Putin" or he is only "pro-Putin" in the same magnitude Richard Nixon is "pro-Mao Tse-Tung"?
What?! Of course he’s “pro-Putin” did you memory hole his administration and how much he openly simped for Vlad? The only issue Trump personally bucked Putin on was Syria because he got all emotional about Assad “killing babies”

Why did you put Assad "killing babies" in quotes? Assad did kill babies. He chemically gassed whole towns.

Also, this is just nonsense more broadly. Trump also, for example, continued US aid to Ukraine (now conveniently memory-holed).
Because that was Trump’s literal quote. Also again reread my quote I said “personal bucked” because the aid to Ukraine was forced on him by Congress

1. Understood and retracted.

2. Yeah, but he still could have vetoed it or ordered US advisors out of Ukraine. He didn't do either. Instead, he signed off on aid and continued US support for Ukraine.
Congress had a veto proof majority on aid so it would of been a useless platitude on Trump’s behalf towards Putin

He still could have withdrawn advisors, but he didn't. Or held up the distribution of aid.
Yeah he just tried to extort Ukraine over aid instead what an ally

Very true. Which is notably not what Putin wanted -- Putin wanted no aid to Ukraine at all! Which suggests that although Trump had the power to hinder/block Ukraine did (as he briefly did for non-Putin related political reasons) he kept it going anyway because he supported it -- another example of him personally breaking with Putin.
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buritobr
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2024, 08:25:29 PM »

Bolsonaro and Bolsonarists belong in neutral/inconsistent. But really, I think it’s something they don’t really care much to have a defined or consistent position.

A good chunk only started being more pro-Zelenskyy after noticing Lula wasn’t aligning that much with Zelenskyy, so they adapt the discourse accordingly in order to antagonize Lula. But when Bolsonaro was president they loved to copy MAGA on the matter and mock the hell out of Zelenskyy, at least the socially conservative hardline base.

Bolsonaro himself started by offending Zelenskyy while in power, only to later once use “freedom to Ukraine” while in foreign soil in order to campaign for external goodwill on the West or something.

It's important to observe the difference between Bolsonaro itself and the right which endorses Bolsonaro.
The right which doesn't endorse Bolsonaro is the most pro-Ukraine group in Brazil, but the right which endorses Bolsonaro is also pro-Ukraine. One example is the PL-SP representative Paulo Bilynskyj, who is proud to have a grandpa who "fought against the USSR in the WW2". His grandpa was member of the Ukrainian nationalist groups who fought with the Waffen-SS. Other example was the former right-wing extremist Sara Winter, who used the quote "vamos ucranizar o Brasil". Even before the Russian invasion, her group considered the anti-communist Ukranian policies since 2014 an example to follow. It's easy for the right to be pro-Ukraine, since there are some pro-Putin leftists (more important in the X than in the real life).
On the other hand, Bolsonaro and his family don't care about this war. Maybe because it's a too complex topic for their minds. And maybe because they want to be connected to both pro-Putin and pro-Zelensky international far-right.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2024, 10:56:28 PM »

PVV in the Netherlands is pro-Ukraine

FvD is pro-Russia.

Not sure about VB in Belgium but they seem at the very least less pro-Ukraine than the mainstream government parties, and have had ties with Russia in the past, so you can add them to team Putin or on inconsistent at Storrs list.
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