SENATE BILL: Pacific Emergency Stimulus (Law'd)

[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

It's not bottomless! PJ estimates it at $83 billion!

[President Tyrion]

Ok, how about this? It sets the baseline at $65 billion, giving the opportunity for the Pacific to make budgetary decisions to cut hopefully the entirety of the remaining $18 billion, and maybe that number can become smaller with a little bit of prestidigitation (aka, accounting).

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[President Tyrion]

Maxwell, I cannot accept your amendment as friendly. I see a shortfall in excess of $80 billion in the Pacific, so perhaps that should be the starting point. I would accept a $20 billion initial stimulus, with 3 more planned $20 billion packages, pending additional Senate approval.

A few notes:
1. I didn't intend for this to be a no-strings attached sort of bill. I was just trying to get this to the floor.

2. I don't mind providing other regions with stimulus funds, but we shouldn't look like stimulus packages as a treat for good behavior. Spending is meant to be a recession reduction tool, not a reward. I know some of you are worried that this might create some perverse incentives, so I am totally willing to regulate the usage of this money to address those concerns.

3. The Pacific does have flaws besides the financial, but there's an obvious budget shortfall, there, so it's certainly worth addressing.

4. The Pacific Region has a miserable credit rating. Forcing the Pacific to borrow on its own is a bad, bad idea, because the interest rates in the region will be enormous. Meanwhile, the federal government can cover the annual shortfall while leveraging its AAA credit rating, which is a net savings. Do note that the Pacific up to a certain point has to spend, so there's no reason to be tight-fisted when the region is on the brink of default.

The Pacific should do something about its own deficit. We can't just take on the Pacific's whole bottomless deficit.

It's not bottomless! PJ estimates it at $83 billion!

Well, the Federal Government should not take care of all of it. I don't think that's fair for all of Atlasia to take that burden.

Does my most recent amendment alleviate those concerns somewhat?

If I introduced an amendment that had the following criteria, how would folks in here respond to it?
- Distributes money to all five regions for recovery, with the majority going to the Pacific.
- Require that the four other regions submit plans to the SoIA on distribution of funds.
- Require SoIA and Pacific Governor to collaborate together on a plan for Pacific funding.

This plan would give the SoIA more responsibilities, require each region's government to "work for the money", and ensures something can actually get done in the Pacific.

I'd be fine if Superique had more responsibility in this, and I'd be fine if we distributed maybe $35 billion to the other regions (making it a round $100 billion if we include my amendment). 

[President Tyrion]

Nay

[President Tyrion]

Ok, so here's the process on this. First, we need to get Matt's vote. Then, we need to process my amendment (which would essentially undo Maxwell's regardless of its passage), so we'll see how that works. Then, we'd have to input some regulatory controls, by inserting Superique into the process.

Let me note that it's VERY important that we allow the Pacific to use the money in the HSR fund, so, at the very least, we need to make sure that we authorize that.

[President Tyrion]

Alright, now I'll bring my amendment to the forefront.

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Points of interest:

• $15 billion more, with opt-outs instead of opt-ins.
• More leeway for the Pacific to spend the money, in that the scheduling still needs to be done relatively soon, but the spending can be more spread out.
• The Pacific can spend the money from the previous stimulus.
• Explicit penalties for a failure to use the funds in a timely manner.

[President Tyrion]

The Pacific should be able to present what they've done, and improvements in their economy before each vote. I think you have done good by putting some beef behind this, but I'm wondering if this would just allow the money to keep rolling without some substance.

Either way, I don't think a huge chunk of this should be used for deficit reduction.

How about we have some group of Superique, PJ, Speaker DemPGH, and I (along with Flo, I assume, since he's another active legislator, and whoever else wants in, I suppose) bring back a plan to the Senate, which can be opened to deliberation and a vote if two Senators object? This can happen each of the 4 times.

We don't need to have it be explicitly for deficit reduction. Like I've mentioned before, I'm not averse to deficits. I think we do need to have EXPLICIT job creation projects. I just worry that the Pacific has no borrowing power.

Amendment 58:62 has been adopted.


Tyrion do you want to revise your amendment? IF not I can proceed with objection period.

I'll await Maxwell's response and we can work something out. I think we're close so we can find something mutually acceptable.

[President Tyrion]

Ok, I'll withdraw my previous amendment and offer this one. This amendment replaces the text of the bill in its entirety with the following:

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[President Tyrion]

I'll have another amendment for this soon.

[President Tyrion]

Tmth's amendment is friendly, and I applaud Mr. Keaton on his work.

I will say that it's certainly reasonable to state that "shoveling" money at the problem isn't a tenable short or long term solution, if I'm understanding your meaning of the word. We need to promote responsible growth.

I also applaud both our President and my Governor for engaging in a dialogue on the issue. I'll be happy to see what Duke brings to the table; his tax law expertise is incredibly valuable. 

[President Tyrion]

Alright, so first my housekeeping:

tmth's first amendment, with respect to payroll taxes, is friendly.

tmth's second amendment, with respect to Oakvale, is friendly.

[President Tyrion]

Is the "Save the Pacific Project" currently legislated, or do we need to create Oakvale's position in this bill?

[President Tyrion]

I would like to remember you guys that despite that not being booked in our budget, as SoIA, I've activated the SEDZI Act and we are currently supplying the Pacfic with more than 65 billion according to previous GM Griffin Estimates.

What? I don't think the Pacific meets all of the requirements to become a SEDZ.

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#3 is relevant here. I don't think that the median income (per capita, I assume) is lower than $21,000.

[President Tyrion]

Has the median income requirement been changed since the Basic Income Guarantee was implemented? I mean, a couple with a child makes more than $21,000 a year. If there has been no revision of the median income requirement, then the stimulus bill ought to waive that requirement.

Does the enactment of SEDZI mean that we are spending 65 billion dollars off the books? That would mean we're running a deficit.

The median income requirement has not been changed, and I think that's something worth addressing. Because of the Basic Income Guarantee, such a median income threshold is almost essentially literally impossible to undercut.

This stimulus bill technically does not need to touch that median income requirement, however, as we can classify it as a top-down stimulus as opposed to classifying the whole region as a SEDZ.

I believe that Superique's interpretation of SEDZI would in fact authorize $65 billion of spending. However, SEDZI isn't a blank check, and I don't think it should be interpreted that way, so I'm not sure that the spending is actually happening.

In any case, we are actually currently running a deficit. Since the last budget, we have increased spending by quite a bit, via Nixcome and various smaller bills, so we are quite comfortable in deficit mode.

[President Tyrion]

Do note that SEDZ payouts are capped at $15 million.

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Furthermore, from the Pacific Crisis Stimulus Act, we actually amended the SEDZI Administration section, but still included the following clause:

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This implies, to me anyway, that we would still need to provide Senate approval before the SoIA can relinquish the funds.

[President Tyrion]

Well, hold on. The relevant text in the SEDZI states that the Senate must approve the spending, and we certainly have not done that, unless this is spending authorized (and yet not accounted for) by a previous Senate.

Also, drawing a distinction between tax "relief" and government spending is a little disingenuous. In either case, the margin of the federal government decreases, and tax relief is slightly less effective because some of that money gets saved by consumers, as opposed to direct spending.

If our only form of "stimulus" is cutting taxes, it'll be less effective than a well-planned stimulus structure aimed to aid the lowest income members of society.

[President Tyrion]

I agree with President Duke, as I am not at all sure that the SEDZI should even be applied that way.

[President Tyrion]

I agree with President Duke, as I am not at all sure that the SEDZI should even be applied that way.

The text allows me to use it until 2015...

True, but I think that if this has been on the books for 3.5 years now, and there has been little to no ostensible unemployment impact, we should probably be looking elsewhere. Presumably, the SEDZs have already been in effect, no?

[President Tyrion]

Alright, Mr. Keaton, but I think if we're going to give oakvale or Superique unilateral power, I believe that we as a Senate should have the right to vet the appointee, whoever he may be, in order to ensure a proper process.

[President Tyrion]

Oakvale is fine.

The Pacific certainly does need to pass that constitution sooner rather than later.

[President Tyrion]

I'd be fine with doing away with the committee. People were fine with it back a couple pages ago, so I kept it in there, but I'm totally fine with a more efficient method.

[President Tyrion]

Amendment is friendly under the presumption that tmth is adopting it for the President. If he's not, I'll originate the amendment.

Question though: Do we need to cut the sin tax rates? Considering how inelastic the use of those products is, I doubt we'd see much of a relative boost in economic activity from the cut.

[President Tyrion]

For the record, the Fourth Constitution is the one that facilitated Rimjob.

We need to make this contingent on the Sixth Constitution. I'll introduce an amendment after the 24 hour period for this one.

[President Tyrion]

Hm, well ok, let's consolidate what we need to amend. We're going to put Oakvale and maybe PJ and maybe DemPGH on the decision team? Can we decide on the specifics of that?

After that, we can probably change up the way by which we manage the committee.

We need to clarify that we want them to pass the 6th constitution.

We need to include the process by which we approve of Oakvale's appointment.

Anything else?