Christians:can you own two coats?

[12th Doctor]

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So, do you got two coats?  How do you couch that with the above verse and all the other parts of the Bible where Jesus tells you to give up all you don't absolutly need.  How do preachers driving Caddy's sleep at night knowing there are kids going to bed hungry in their same town?

(sorry if we've done this before)

Catholic priests, depending on the diocese, make on average about $16,000/year... that is not including housing, of course.  Compared to the average "minister" that is a piffling sum.

Anyway, the idea here is that one should never have more than one needs for the sake of greed.

But you should also remember that this isn't then... you didn't need much back then, and today you need to leave something in the mattress for financial security.

[12th Doctor]

Anyway, the idea here is that one should never have more than one needs for the sake of greed.

But you should also remember that this isn't then... you didn't need much back then, and today you need to leave something in the mattress for financial security.

A $50k Caddy is for financial security?  Half a million dollar homes are for security?  I'll buy that you need to keep a little something around to keep yourself in bologna and cheese in ones old age, but that doesn't seem to be what 95% of the Christians I've met are doing.

Well, then you must be rolling with a different crowd than myself because 95% of the Christians I've met are lower-middle class.  I think statistics will back me up on that.

[12th Doctor]

Anyway, the idea here is that one should never have more than one needs for the sake of greed.

But you should also remember that this isn't then... you didn't need much back then, and today you need to leave something in the mattress for financial security.

A $50k Caddy is for financial security?  Half a million dollar homes are for security?  I'll buy that you need to keep a little something around to keep yourself in bologna and cheese in ones old age, but that doesn't seem to be what 95% of the Christians I've met are doing.

Well, then you must be rolling with a different crowd than myself because 95% of the Christians I've met are lower-middle class.  I think statistics will back me up on that.

The lower middle class are as guilty, although you might argue that two televisions and an SUV are necessary.

I'm not going to disagree with at least part of your sentiment in that I think many people are incredibly wasteful... but quite a bit has changed since Biblical times... there are things we can do and things we have now that simply were not an option or didn't exist 2000 years ago.  No offense to Christ, but it was easier to be a wandering hippie 2000 years ago.  People often take Christ's teachings on wealth way out of perspective. For instance, the teaching that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven might not be saying exactly what we think it is.  There is an interpretation of this line that has gained alot of momentum recently, and that is that Christ was talking about "The Needle's Eye" which was a gate in Jerusalem that remained open after sunset, but was left particularly small so that men could only go through one at a time.  It is, indeed possible to get a camel through there, but it is difficult, and the camel would have to be unhindered by baggage, what might be interpreted as the weight of sin and worldliness.

[12th Doctor]

Do you not have any "mega" churches in your corner of PA?  We've got a handfull here and the parking lots are full of BMW's, giant SUV's, and hundreds of other new cars.

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't judge.  But I know it certainly sets a horrible example for other Christians to follow and non-Christians to see.

Of course you are going to have exceptions.  But keep in mind that there are alot of people who buy those thing living totally out of their means.  Also, a car has to be new before it can be old.  If everyone started driving only used cars, there wouldn't be any cars at all, eventually.

BTW... not to paint with too broad a brush, but its been my experience that mega-churches are generally packed with social climbing hypocrites who love the "protestant work ethic" only because they use it as a means to justify their wealth... not because it means they actually like to work.

[12th Doctor]

Proof? Source?

Churchgoing increases your charitable giving significantly - he's right.  I'm too lazy to find the sources, but there have been several.

No, no -- he said CONSERVATIVE Christians give more than liberals.  Did he mean liberals in general or liberal Christians?  There are tens of millions of churchgoing Christians in this country who are not conservative.  I'd like to see some evidence that they are less charitable than their conservative brethren.

Too, I think you have to be VERY careful when you talk about charitable donations.  Where is the money going?  If I write a check for $500.00 to James Dobson so he can further his political agenda, is that factored into what Jmcfst is talking about? Conservative Christians give millions to radio and tv preachers.  It may be they do good work with the money.  Billy Graham sure does.  But it may also be they use the money to finance political crusades and keep themselves in the lap of luxury. 

There have been several studies done which show that socially conservative and often times poorer US state give more than Blue states... again... its pretty well know and like Alcon... I'm too lazy to look for it.

BTW... being socially conservative means you are generally more likely to go to Church.