$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[Matty]

If grad students do not have the means to pursue their studies as gentlemen, perhaps they should study a subject where full funding is the norm? We're not talking about undergrad where you drink and sexually assault your schoolmates at your parents' expense.

That's the thing, they're TAXING the full funding so that we can't afford it. Without that tax, we're already living on scraps, going to food pantries, etc.

Arch, what are you studying in grad school? Are you also teaching any discussion sections for undegrad classes? When I went to school, grad students lead the discussion sections.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The motion by Sen. Cardin to send the bill back to committee has failed 44-56. If I heard the clerk right, the defections were Gillibrand, Booker, Warren, and Merkley. I will check the official roll call when it's published by the Senate.

Wait why?

Are they just assuming it'll pass and telling them to get it over with?

Hmmm, someone changed their vote at the last minute, fails 43-57. I'll see if I see anything.

[Matty]

Assuming this senate vote is finished by the end of today, let's all  give a hand to Dwarven Dragon, castro, and yank131 for their awesome coverage and updates about where the bill and the senators stand.

I look forward to more updates during conference committee stuff.

Thanks guys! Such an awesome forum and thread!

[Webnicz]

This is why people in AZ don't like Flake, hundreds of his constituents always leave messages for him on issues but he tends to ignore them and make votes without input of his voters

[Dr. Arch]

If grad students do not have the means to pursue their studies as gentlemen, perhaps they should study a subject where full funding is the norm? We're not talking about undergrad where you drink and sexually assault your schoolmates at your parents' expense.

That's the thing, they're TAXING the full funding so that we can't afford it. Without that tax, we're already living on scraps, going to food pantries, etc.

Arch, what are you studying in grad school? Are you also teaching any discussion sections for undegrad classes? When I went to school, grad students lead the discussion sections.

I'm studying Linguistics (Ph.D.), a social science with diverse applications all over the economy from civilian to military. And yes, I teach a class of undergrad students. For full disclosure, I am paid approximately $16,000 a year, and my apartment is $900 a month with all utilities except power. I'm also a full time graduate student and participate in a number of extracurricular and professional development activities/events.

This is the norm for graduate students who are working to study. We are honest people looking to improve and contribute to society. Let us get there and work for our country and our people.

[junior chįmp]

I'm glad theyre passing it. Only makes 2018 worse for them

Here is a slight historical question. Ignoring whether laws and legislation are good or bad for the people, when was the last time a party in power was significantly *helped* in a midterm by legislation they had passes in the years and months prior to the midterm elections?

Was it 2002, 1998?

I have a big book on historical mid term elections and I'm at work now but I'll come back this question later

I think regardless of what happens prior to the midterm, the best barometer to go by is the incumbent president's approval rating. Bill Clinton was super popular in 1998, and everything the GOP did only made him more so, and that lead to a good midterm for Democrats. Likewise, GWB was made exceptionally popular due to a rally-around-the-flag event and that made 2002 good for Republicans. I forget the exact numbers, but Clinton and GWB were sporting mid-high 60s in approvals going into their midterms.

Point being that if Trump still has awful approval ratings in October/November 2018, the GOP is going to get trounced.

It's actually not approval ratings because Eisenhower got shellacked in 1958 despite decent ratings. This book goes back to all mid term elections before polling existed. I mean approval ratings are helpful but there are other far more detrimental factors

[OSR stands with Israel]

Assuming this senate vote is finished by the end of today, let's all  give a hand to Dwarven Dragon, castro, and yank131 for their awesome coverage and updates about where the bill and the senators stand.

I look forward to more updates during conference committee stuff.

Thanks guys! Such an awesome forum and thread!

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

This is why people in AZ don't like Flake, hundreds of his constituents always leave messages for him on issues but he tends to ignore them and make votes without input of his voters

Yeah, I'm glad that Flake is retiring. Whether the replacement is Salmon, McSally, or Sinema, they can't be any worse than Flake. (I don't believe Ward would ever win a general election)

[Esteemed Jimmy]

This is why people in AZ don't like Flake, hundreds of his constituents always leave messages for him on issues but he tends to ignore them and make votes without input of his voters

Yeah, I'm glad that Flake is retiring. Whether the replacement is Salmon, McSally, or Sinema, they can't be any worse than Flake. (I don't believe Ward would ever win a general election)

[pbrower2a]

If I understood correctly, the House bill could really raise taxes on people like me on graduation tuition waivers at private universities by taxing the waiver as income.  Many of us have very little money and loads of debt, and they want to act like we are high rollers. I should be out by the time this would go into effect, and take limited courses at the moment, but man...

I don't know the details, so I would love if someone could explain this isn't as bad as it sounds.

But think of the alternatives to grad school. You could be a domestic servant who gets to live in the radiant glow of people so wealthy that their very presence will almost blind you! You could be a farm laborer! You might shine shoes!

Face it -- Do0nald Trump and the GOP hate smart, educated people because they can see through the propaganda and the fraudulence of the order.

I see no silver lining. This will probably stick until America undergoes a revolution or is defeated in a catastrophic war.

[Matty]

If grad students do not have the means to pursue their studies as gentlemen, perhaps they should study a subject where full funding is the norm? We're not talking about undergrad where you drink and sexually assault your schoolmates at your parents' expense.

That's the thing, they're TAXING the full funding so that we can't afford it. Without that tax, we're already living on scraps, going to food pantries, etc.

Arch, what are you studying in grad school? Are you also teaching any discussion sections for undegrad classes? When I went to school, grad students lead the discussion sections.

I'm studying Linguistics (Ph.D.), a social science with diverse applications all over the economy from civilian to military. And yes, I teach a class of undergrad students. For full disclosure, I am paid approximately $16,000 a year, and my apartment is $900 a month with all utilities except power. I'm also a full time graduate student and participate in a number of extracurricular and professional development activities/events.

This is the norm for graduate students who are working to study. We are honest people looking to improve and contribute to society. Let us get there and work for our country and our people.

Linguistics seems like a very interesting field of study. How do you like teaching a class? I hope the students this semester for you are not too annoying, haha.

[Dr. Arch]

If grad students do not have the means to pursue their studies as gentlemen, perhaps they should study a subject where full funding is the norm? We're not talking about undergrad where you drink and sexually assault your schoolmates at your parents' expense.

That's the thing, they're TAXING the full funding so that we can't afford it. Without that tax, we're already living on scraps, going to food pantries, etc.

Arch, what are you studying in grad school? Are you also teaching any discussion sections for undegrad classes? When I went to school, grad students lead the discussion sections.

I'm studying Linguistics (Ph.D.), a social science with diverse applications all over the economy from civilian to military. And yes, I teach a class of undergrad students. For full disclosure, I am paid approximately $16,000 a year, and my apartment is $900 a month with all utilities except power. I'm also a full time graduate student and participate in a number of extracurricular and professional development activities/events.

This is the norm for graduate students who are working to study. We are honest people looking to improve and contribute to society. Let us get there and work for our country and our people.

Linguistics seems like a very interesting field of study. How do you like teaching a class? I hope the students this semester for you are not too annoying, haha.

I love teaching Sometimes it's frustrating because grad school-related work gets in your way of giving the best possible class, but I think my students have always enjoyed my course; they're all great in their own ways.

[emailking]

Assuming this senate vote is finished by the end of today, let's all  give a hand to Dwarven Dragon, castro, and yank131 for their awesome coverage and updates about where the bill and the senators stand.

I look forward to more updates during conference committee stuff.

Thanks guys! Such an awesome forum and thread!

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Official roll call for Cardin motion to recommit is published. Defections were Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Sanders, and Warren. Unclear why they defected. : https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00292

[Matty]

Is there any indication at all about when the actual vote will take place? Will it be sometime today?

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

Official roll call for Cardin motion to recommit is published. Defections were Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Sanders, and Warren. Unclear why they defected. : https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00292

Show vote? This bill is so bad it shouldn't even go back to committee?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Official roll call for Cardin motion to recommit is published. Defections were Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Sanders, and Warren. Unclear why they defected. : https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00292

Something about 2020 of course

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Is there any indication at all about when the actual vote will take place? Will it be sometime today?

Hopefully there are at least 45 motions to return the bill to committee.  The longer this abomination gets delayed, the better.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Official roll call for Cardin motion to recommit is published. Defections were Booker, Gillibrand, Merkley, Sanders, and Warren. Unclear why they defected. : https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00292

Something about 2020 of course

"I voted with Republicans to continue the process of passing their tax bill" is not a 2020 democratic argument.

[Sestak]

I'm curious.

Those of you who are against this bill, do you think the Democrats should introduce amendments like Rubio-Lee, etc. to force GOP senators to go on the record about them, or only offer motions to commit?

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Is there any indication at all about when the actual vote will take place? Will it be sometime today?

There were seven hours left of debate time when the session began at 10 AM ET, but they spent roughly an hour in adjournment which I don't think counts against the debate time. So that would put the set of actual amendment votes and the final vote at a start time of roughly 6 PM ET, unless time is yielded back.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I'm curious.

Those of you who are against this bill, do you think the Democrats should introduce amendments like Rubio-Lee, etc. to force GOP senators to go on the record about them, or only offer motions to commit?

Both, anything that delays the vote.  I don’t care if they’re voting on tangentially related amendments this time tomorrow, the important thing is to block the bill this week.

[BudgieForce]

Susan Collins amendments make me feel a little better about this bill.

[Sestak]

Susan Collins amendments make me feel a little better about this bill.

What are in her amendments?

Is SALT being restored?

[BudgieForce]

Susan Collins amendments make me feel a little better about this bill.

What are in her amendments?

Is SALT being restored?

Up to $10,000.