Pope Francis laments American universities that are ‘too liberal’ and ‘only train technicians’

[jojoju1998]

https://web.archive.org/web/20240503155203/https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2024/05/03/pope-francis-universities-education-liberal-247859

" Pope Francis said that some universities are “too liberal” and do not place enough emphasis on forming their students into whole people.

Speaking May 3 on the need for holistic higher education, the pope noted by contrast “some universities I know in America that are too liberal and only seek to train technicians and specialists.”

[Beet]

His use of the term liberal in this context is going to confuse some people, but it is not inaccurate.

[Badger]

His use of the term liberal in this context is going to confuse some people, but it is not inaccurate.

It certainly is. I read the article and it didn't really offer context for his use of the term liberal,. However, ironically he seems to be supporting broad-based liberal arts education which is quite contrary to most modern day political conservatives views that a college needs to be pretty much all stem research or hard Sciences, because someone needs to use their degree to make cheaper larger TV sets or diet pills, not actually learn how to exercise critical thinking.

[DrScholl]

It would be beneficial to put more ethics training into university curriculum and distinguish how ethical limits are not defined solely by the law. Too many people define what is acceptable based on "it's constitutional".

[Beet]

His use of the term liberal in this context is going to confuse some people, but it is not inaccurate.

It certainly is. I read the article and it didn't really offer context for his use of the term liberal,. However, ironically he seems to be supporting broad-based liberal arts education which is quite contrary to most modern day political conservatives views that a college needs to be pretty much all stem research or hard Sciences, because someone needs to use their degree to make cheaper larger TV sets or diet pills, not actually learn how to exercise critical thinking.

That's not modern conservatives view, it's the view of your average Patel or Dmitri who needs to repay their student loans. The Popes view is that this is liberalism, which it is, the broader sense. Liberal arts education otoh is ironically illiberal in the sense that it is driven by the notion of the importance of students being a "well-rounded human being", and this is what he is advocating for.

[wnwnwn]

Did he use the continental definition of liberal?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Did he use the continental definition of liberal?

I imagine he used the Peronist definition.

[wnwnwn]

Did he use the continental definition of liberal?

I imagine he used the Peronist definition.

Liberal = Milei?

[Indy Texas]

His use of the term liberal in this context is going to confuse some people, but it is not inaccurate.

It certainly is. I read the article and it didn't really offer context for his use of the term liberal,. However, ironically he seems to be supporting broad-based liberal arts education which is quite contrary to most modern day political conservatives views that a college needs to be pretty much all stem research or hard Sciences, because someone needs to use their degree to make cheaper larger TV sets or diet pills, not actually learn how to exercise critical thinking.

I assume he meant liberal in the small-L political sense: universities being about students acquiring skills that most enable them to contribute to or participate in the market economy, rather than education as a process of character bulding and moral formation.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

College is just like having a high school Diploma if you don't have any skills, or you don't know anyone you are put back into Labor force as a HS Graduate.

It's nice having a Degree but a many aren't using it as we suffer from a Student loans indebtness

[SnowLabrador]

Why has Pope Francis suddenly been acting like a right-wing culture warrior lately? I mean, more so than would be expected for a Catholic leader.

[Torie]

I assume that he uses the term "liberal as in a "liberal arts education."

[jojoju1998]

Why has Pope Francis suddenly been acting like a right-wing culture warrior lately? I mean, more so than would be expected for a Catholic leader.

Pope Francis in the article seems to be arguing for more liberal arts education not less.

[SnowLabrador]

Why has Pope Francis suddenly been acting like a right-wing culture warrior lately? I mean, more so than would be expected for a Catholic leader.

Pope Francis in the article seems to be arguing for more liberal arts education not less.

Oh. In that case, Increasingly Rare Pope Francis W.

[jojoju1998]

Why has Pope Francis suddenly been acting like a right-wing culture warrior lately? I mean, more so than would be expected for a Catholic leader.

Pope Francis in the article seems to be arguing for more liberal arts education not less.

Oh. In that case, Increasingly Rare Pope Francis W.

Read the quote in context. Pope Francis himself studied humanities, psychology, and got a masters degree in philosophy before entering theological studies, so why would he opposed to something that helped shaped him ? He's also a Jesuit. Man, please read the entire article, please ! That seems to happen alot with this pope. People don't read context.

[Red Velvet]

He’s talking about “liberal” in the ECONOMIC sense people, not the SOCIAL one.

He’s criticizing liberalism from a left-wing point of view, arguing that higher education tends to value more the careers associated to technology while not caring enough about the human and social arts when it shouldn’t be like that.

It’s from the same place where I come from when I attack liberals, probably most Latin Americans like the Pope see Liberalism as the ideology associated with Right-Wing Economics and Progressive social values.

These are the general “labels” to use:



“Oh he could’ve used the term “too conservative” instead that it would mean the same thing”

Not really because in Latin America each side tends to have different focus of priorities. When you say someone is a Conservative, they will be immediately more associated to Socially Conservative Politics than with Right-Wing Economics even if they support both anyway.

So when ANYTHING is too economically to the right, the correct term to use is to say it’s “too liberal” instead of “too conservative” as the average person will immediately understand that by liberal you’re talking about economic right-wing ideas.

These tend to be what each side is better known for:

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hilarious how he seemed to taylor his remarks to ensure maximum levels of misinterpretation from US audiences specifically. Chad move honestly.

He is entirely correct on the substance, of course.

[ingemann]

Hilarious how he seemed to taylor his remarks to ensure maximum levels of misinterpretation from US audiences specifically. Chad move honestly.

Yes, but honestly he’s wrong. Not in the criticism itself education should create well rounded people with an understanding of the society and world they live in and with knowledge of the arts, history and geography. It just shouldn’t happen in expensive self paid educations, that’s just a way to punish the less well off.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Did he use the continental definition of liberal?

I imagine he used the Peronist definition.

Liberal = Milei?

No, Francis and Milei are buddies now, in a me-and-Vosem sort of way. Liberal = Vivek Ramaswamy.

[jojoju1998]

Hilarious how he seemed to taylor his remarks to ensure maximum levels of misinterpretation from US audiences specifically. Chad move honestly.

Yes, but honestly he’s wrong. Not in the criticism itself education should create well rounded people with an understanding of the society and world they live in and with knowledge of the arts, history and geography. It just shouldn’t happen in expensive self paid educations, that’s just a way to punish the less well off.

Catholic Education in the US used to be free; that is... free before the Vocations Crisis, made schools hire lay people, thus increasing costs and salaries for everything.

[Pres Mike]

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

[ingemann]

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

I think it’s a question of perspective, I think that people complain about is more that the things some people learn on American universities are a waste of time rather than it’s too generalist.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

That's the orthodoxy throughout most of the American education policy chattering classes, yes. Francis disagrees with them.

[Pres Mike]

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

I think it’s a question of perspective, I think that people complain about is more that the things some people learn on American universities are a waste of time rather than it’s too generalist.

I agree with that

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

That's the orthodoxy throughout most of the American education policy chattering classes, yes. Francis disagrees with them.

I wonder what made Pope Francis comment on American universities

[Badger]

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

I think it’s a question of perspective, I think that people complain about is more that the things some people learn on American universities are a waste of time rather than it’s too generalist.

I agree with that

(I'm going to ignore his use of "liberal" which is confusing)

Is he saying that American universities focus too much on job skills and not on a broad renaissance education? Isn't it the opposite?

That's the orthodoxy throughout most of the American education policy chattering classes, yes. Francis disagrees with them.

I wonder what made Pope Francis comment on American universities

He was speaking to a group of Spanish University professors and scholars. I suppose it came up as a compare/contrast point.