The Day After... Italy.

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A default is not the end of the world.

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Apparently this passes for an austerity package today:

"The austerity package foresees 59.8bn euros in savings from a mixture of spending cuts and tax rises, with the aim of balancing the budget by 2014. Measures include:

-An increase in VAT, from 20% to 21%
-A freeze on public-sector salaries until 2014
-The retirement age for women in the private sector will gradually rise, from 60 in 2014 until it reaches 65 in 2026, the same age as for men
-Measures to fight tax evasion will be strengthened, including a limit of 2,500 euros on cash transactions
-There will be a special tax on the energy sector

Seriously?

I mean I figure when a politician says "pass this and I'll resign to all of your enjoyment" that you would expect something a little stronger than this. How about maybe:

-20% public sector layoffs?
-20% reduction in public employee pay
-Or adding 50-100 euro co-pays for hospital visits?

I mean at least some real austerity would be something. And we are supposed to expect that the countries are going to cut government spending when things get better? Please!

Tax evasion in Greece is a major part of why they are in the predicament they are in.  If the wealthy paid taxes at the same rate that public sector employees do that would certainly help.  It makes no sense to implement austerity measures on the people who have been dutifully paying taxes all this time while the wealthy who are the biggest evaders are given a free pass.  If you take that into consideration those riots you have been seeing on TV might make a little more sense.

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Apparently this passes for an austerity package today:

"The austerity package foresees 59.8bn euros in savings from a mixture of spending cuts and tax rises, with the aim of balancing the budget by 2014. Measures include:

-An increase in VAT, from 20% to 21%
-A freeze on public-sector salaries until 2014
-The retirement age for women in the private sector will gradually rise, from 60 in 2014 until it reaches 65 in 2026, the same age as for men
-Measures to fight tax evasion will be strengthened, including a limit of 2,500 euros on cash transactions
-There will be a special tax on the energy sector

Seriously?

I mean I figure when a politician says "pass this and I'll resign to all of your enjoyment" that you would expect something a little stronger than this. How about maybe:

-20% public sector layoffs?
-20% reduction in public employee pay
-Or adding 50-100 euro co-pays for hospital visits?

I mean at least some real austerity would be something. And we are supposed to expect that the countries are going to cut government spending when things get better? Please!

Tax evasion in Greece is a major part of why they are in the predicament they are in.  If the wealthy paid taxes at the same rate that public sector employees do that would certainly help.  It makes no sense to implement austerity measures on the people who have been dutifully paying taxes all this time while the wealthy who are the biggest evaders are given a free pass.  If you take that into consideration those riots you have been seeing on TV might make a little more sense.

I guess you have problems reading because that austerity package isn't for Greece its for Italy! Beet and Italianboy figured that out, but gee who would have guessed that you wouldn't figure that out?

Does tax evasion mean something different in Italian?  You do realize it is okay if there are similarities between financial reforms in different countries?

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You really can't admit making a mistake, can you? You explicitly said that that the tax evasion was the main reason why Greece was in their predicament. You gave no reason for believing that the same is true for Italy.

Cracking down on tax evasion is but one reform.  I do not know to what degree it plays are role in Italy's current woe's but in a country that gave us the mafia I have to imagine it will do some good.  I do not think that is unreasonable.

By the way Gustaf the thread is titled Italy and my post clearly says Greece.  Where exactly is the confusion?

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You really can't admit making a mistake, can you? You explicitly said that that the tax evasion was the main reason why Greece was in their predicament. You gave no reason for believing that the same is true for Italy.

Cracking down on tax evasion is but one reform.  I do not know to what degree it plays are role in Italy's current woe's but in a country that gave us the mafia I have to imagine it will do some good.  I do not think that is unreasonable.

By the way Gustaf the thread is titled Italy and my post clearly says Greece.  Where exactly is the confusion?

So...why did you lecture someone talking about Italy with evidence from Greece then? That doesn't make much sense?

Because he does it all of the time. He shoots his mouth off on something he doesn't have a clue about then gets into trouble and doesn't take responsibility for it. How Link isn't a *complete and universal* joke(as opposed to just a joke) on these forums already I have no idea.

Disagreeing with Wonkish1=shooting your mouth off on something you don't have a clue about

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You really can't admit making a mistake, can you? You explicitly said that that the tax evasion was the main reason why Greece was in their predicament. You gave no reason for believing that the same is true for Italy.

Cracking down on tax evasion is but one reform.  I do not know to what degree it plays are role in Italy's current woe's but in a country that gave us the mafia I have to imagine it will do some good.  I do not think that is unreasonable.

By the way Gustaf the thread is titled Italy and my post clearly says Greece.  Where exactly is the confusion?

So...why did you lecture someone talking about Italy with evidence from Greece then? That doesn't make much sense?

Sometimes things that happen in Greece may also occur in Italy.  Some have proposed they may even happen in the United States...



It doesn't necessarily make the countries 100% analogous, but when I pick out one reform and suggest it may have merit I don't think that is a reason for you to come unglued.  Just present your evidence showing that it is in no way analogous and doesn't happen in Italy and we will move on.

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Disagreeing with Wonkish1=shooting your mouth off on something you don't have a clue about

This is so funny you got caught red handed not even knowing which country I was referring to and now you can't even admit it. Your just making yourself look like a bigger hack and a liar every time you post.

My post quite clearly says Greece in bold letters.   If you choose not to read that I can't help.  What I have noticed is that you have not offered any evidence to refute the assertion that perhaps cracking down on tax evasion in Italy is not a bad idea.  Your unwillingness in multiple posts to address this point tells me that it has some merit.  You can type as many belligerent posts calling people stupid and idiots as you want.  That isn't debating.

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The point is that you thought...

I don't know who appointed you the final arbiter on everything connected to this forum.  Due to lack of clarity I have had my posts misinterpreted and I have misinterpreted other people's posts.  What I have never seen is when there is a simple misunderstanding anyone doggedly go after another person claiming to know what they actually meant and calling them a liar.  There are times I have misinterpreted other people's posts and jumped all over them and when it was pointed out I apologized.  Other times I have asked for clarification prior to jumping all over them.  Sometimes I have asked three or four times until they finally unambiguously say exactly what they meant.  I do not then call them liars.  Frankly this is the first time I have seen this type of extreme behavior, but sadly I know it won't be the last.

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You instead never admit mistakes and then turn into a d*ck when someone else admits a mistake to you.

1) The thread you linked to quite clearly has me saying I'm sorry to you.

2) You need to take it easy on calling people on this forum "d*cks."  I'm not the one that continually goes into profanity laced tirades and calls other forum posters "stupid" and "idiots."

3) There are other people that would like to enjoy the economics forum.  Everything that can be politely said on this topic has been said.  I have nothing further to add.  Until the next misunderstanding... Adieu.