Pope John Paul II self-flagellated to get closer to Jesus

[JSojourner]

i don't know much about this subject, but I don't recall any explicit example in the bible of anyone in the faith physically beating his/her own body, unless it was a simply beating of the chest out of anguish.

does anyone know of a biblical example?

No.  And certainly not for the purpose of "getting closer to Jesus", as some Opus Dei practitioners claim. The point is, theologically, that Jesus took the stripes that were meant for us and we cannot do anything (including suffer) to merit God's favor.  He has already done that for us.  One of my Opus Dei acquaintances wears a belt with small, jagged edges on it so he can be uncomfortable and even cut throughout the day.  He says it reminds him of the pain Christ endured for him...and, while I respect his sincerity and his desire to honor Jesus...I see no Scriptural support for his activity and, in fact, it could lead SOME practitioners to errantly believe they are paying for their sins at least in part. If so, Jesus' final declaration on the cross that, "It is finished" was in error.

St. Paul did say, "I buffet my body"...but then we get into the whole problem of taking everything in Scripture literally.  Contextually, it seems clear to me that Paul was talking about controlling his urges, denying his selfish desires in favor of service to others and obedience to Christ. I don't see anything there indicating he was beating himself.

I do draw a distinction between fasting and other forms of self denial and actual self-flagellation.  And maybe I am putting too fine a point on it. But even fasting is supposed to be done with a view toward common sense and self preservation (not fasting if you are physically or medically unable, etc.) Fasting is supposed to cause one to recognize the lack of something and, in lacking, to realize the sufficiency of Christ. I don't see how whipping yourself does that in anyway.

There is so much I respected about the previous pontiff and I mean no disrespect to my brother and sister Roman Catholics. Most of the Catholics I know are far better Christians than me and very, very few are members of Opus Dei...which strikes me as a bizarre, almost cult-like movement. But again...I speak from a certainly level of ignorance and will defer to Chris or others with a greater experience with the RCC.

[JSojourner]

I certainly have no problem with asceticism.  I sometimes think we could all do with periods of it from time to time.  Self-denial is fine. (I suspect the hairshirt is probably more an ascetic tool than a masochistic one.) My concern is that self-flagellation confuses a person's soteriology.  We are saved, justified, redeemed (use what word you prefer) by the suffering and death of Jesus Christ.  Not by any suffering or pain we inflict on ourselves. Of equal concern, and surely of great concern to the Father who loves and cares for our well-being, is that sometimes self-flagellation can put one's body is serious danger.  Now, I am not implying that my Opus Dei brothers and sisters are suicidal or anything.  But small cuts can get infected and turn into major health problems.  Beatings can cause internal damage.  How is this being a good steward of the body given to us by God?

As to St. Paul saying "I beat my body", I would encourage a look at the original language.  "Beat" may be (I am not sure if it is) a poor 1611 translation. I have seen other versions of Scripture use the words, "buffet", "control", "bridle" and "master". Wouldn't this be more consistent a call on the lives of believers tenderly loved by Jesus?

When my father suffered aphasia from a stroke, he was physically fine but mentally unable to express or receive certain words. In utter frustration with his inability to communicate, Dad would strike himself on the head and say, "So dumb...so dumb..."  (This from a man who did trig problems for fun and loved to discuss T.S. Eliot with me.)

What broke my heart was only partly Dad's aphasia. More of the heartbreak centered around his self-hatred. He was "beating his body" over his own shortcomings. And, since decades of smoking were almost centainly contributing factors to his stroke, he may well have been blaming himself. I dunno.) But I do know that self hatred of any kind is incompatible with the tenderness God, in Christ, has for us and wants us to have for ourselves.

Again, I don't disrespect my Catholic brothers and sisters. I have grown so much through the ministry and encouragement of priests, monks and RCC theologians. This is just one area that concerns me about the church and one that I hope does not get out of hand. I doubt it is that broadly practised -- I am not even sure all Opus Dei members self-flagellate. I only know that when my Dad beat himself, it made me weep because I loved him so much. I wonder how the Father of Jesus feels when we hurt and hate ourselves, seeing as how He loves us far more than we are capable of loving others placed in our care.

Does that make sense?

[JSojourner]

JMCFST,

That is perfect.  You got it spot on.  I was probably projecting!

(I do think there are those in every Christian tradition, not just Catholicism, that "beat themselves up" -- if not physically, then mentally and emotionally.  But yeah -- that's an entirely different kettle of fish.)