Here's Why I Don't Post Anymore...

[migrendel]

Then not grouping yourself as a Republican would be purely semantical.

[KEmperor]

I believe that most of the international members have chosen to use the avatar of the American party that they would most closely identify with.  I see nothing wrong with Tory having a Repubican avatar, just like JFK, Gustaf, Huck Finn, etc. use Democratic avatars.

[Siege40]

I believe that most of the international members have chosen to use the avatar of the American party that they would most closely identify with.  I see nothing wrong with Tory having a Repubican avatar, just like JFK, Gustaf, Huck Finn, etc. use Democratic avatars.

Maybe he really just likes the colour blue.

Siege

[Gustaf]

Dazzleman, I wouldn't go as far sa saying the same thing...there are marked differences between Nazis and communists, though I agree that they're not an exteme form of conservatism.

Mort, well put. You should register for the fantasy elections, last day is today.

[Nym90]

I'm pretty sure that he already did.

[??????????]

Have any of you actually been to moveon.org.  I had NOT until today, and I see nothing hateful there.  They are liberal.  I agree with much of their positions.  I read a Gore speech which was very good, actually.  If moveon is "despicable", "very scary", then Limbaugh should probably be put to death.  I really have no idea what is so "scary" about anything on moveon... examples please, maybe I went to the wrong links there.

Go watch some of the ads on Bushin30.com. Mostly ridiculouse venom.

[??????????]

I'm actually offended that you lump all of the moveon.org people together as "idiots".  They're certainly no more idiots than idealogs on the right (dittoheads, fox news fans, washington times readers, etc.).  If I called any of those groups "idiots", then I'd be a troll, but the "liberals" around here say that about the left.  I just think that everything in this country has moved so far to the right that right now, the left is more frustrated than the right, particularly given that this is happening during a time when their candidate "lost" an election with more votes, and the Congress is also split very evenly.

Frankly, I couldn't care less why MarkDel doesn't post anymore.  Go play with your conservative friends.

Yes your boy Gore won the election. Who's in the White House again? Moveon.org is a threat to this country and should be shut down. I've gone to that site and read some of the venom they spew on there. That stuff is disturbing.

By the way, you completely missed my point (big shock) on the fact that the dems got more votes in 2000.  I was just commenting on why SOME on the left are currently more frustrated than most on the right.  

I'm sure you're fairly young, but you must remember the Clinton years.  The left was not so angry then (except at Clinton, who was too far to the center for many on the left).  It was the right that was angry.  

I never said Gore "won" the election.  I said he got more votes leading to additional frustration on the left.  You are the one who said Gore "won", not me.  Sounds to me like you're gloating that Bush "won" with less votes, like you enjoy seeing the left squirm.  

Also,  that's real American of you to want to shut down political speech of moveon.org.  You like the constitution only when it suits your purposes.

scary...

The far left should squirm. A great majority of America doesn't want them. Their wacky ideas about the enviroment and their attempts to make the US more like Europe are nerving to say the least. When you party has speakers who say that ideas such as "nationalism" and "individualism" are dangerous to America then it's time to really think about what these folks stand for. In a time of war I think it's very bad for morale and our chance to actually win this war with people being so hateful towards our president and the job of defending our shores from those who wish to destroy us.

[migrendel]

But what else but criticism, StatesRights, can restrain the excesses of those in power? A meek acquiescence to those departures from what is legal, healthful, or even plain sensible won't help anyone.

[??????????]

But what else but criticism, StatesRights, can restrain the excesses of those in power? A meek acquiescence to those departures from what is legal, healthful, or even plain sensible won't help anyone.

I do not have a problem with constructive criticism Migrendel. I see the problems starting when the criticisms go to the next level, when they start to become a threat to our very freedoms as Americans. I think intentionally undermining efforts to win a war is a danger to all Americans safety. CBS has not helped the situation.

[elcorazon]

I've seen no evidence of anyone in this country "intentionally undermining efforts to win a war".  Are you suggesting CBS has done this?  When?  How?  By criticizing/questioning U.S. policy?  

It's so wacky of the left to want to improve our environment.  I rue the day when it was ok to throw garbage out your car window.  It's too bad those evil lefties have made me use a garbage can.  And why should municipalities have to waste so much money treating their sewage before dumping it in the lake.  We've got pools don't we.  We can purify the water.  What a waste of money.  

And nationalism never made any sense to me.  Sure I love my country, but I'm just one of the lucky ones who was born here.  I don't think I am any more deserving than anyone else to have a better life just because I'm an American.


I'll check out bushin30.com, but not at work.

[migrendel]

I think there is a fairly distinct line of demarcation between investigative reporting and treason, StatesRights, one I think you're a little unsure of at times.

[??????????]

I've seen no evidence of anyone in this country "intentionally undermining efforts to win a war".  Are you suggesting CBS has done this?  When?  How?  By criticizing/questioning U.S. policy?  

It's so wacky of the left to want to improve our environment.  I rue the day when it was ok to throw garbage out your car window.  It's too bad those evil lefties have made me use a garbage can.  And why should municipalities have to waste so much money treating their sewage before dumping it in the lake.  We've got pools don't we.  We can purify the water.  What a waste of money.  

And nationalism never made any sense to me.  Sure I love my country, but I'm just one of the lucky ones who was born here.  I don't think I am any more deserving than anyone else to have a better life just because I'm an American.


I'll check out bushin30.com, but not at work.

El, I have no problem with reasonable enviromental standards. I do believe in some aspects we are ruining our enviroment. Of course I am strongly against littering and dumping your garbage in the streets. That's more common sense then enviromentalism however. When the regulations are so tough as to choke the economy, example Oil drilling regulations, then I have to put my foot down and disagree. If the DoD had agreed to let CBS air the photos and the claims then I would have no problem with it whatsoever. But from what I understand they did go against the recommendations of the DoD. Do you know what would have happened had they done such a thing in World War 2? I am just saying their is a time when the media does need to be reigned in a bit. Everyone deserves to have a better life IMHO whether they live here or not, my point is waving the flag and saying, "I'm d*mn proud to be American" should not be considered offensive. We should be proud of what our ancestors fought so hard to secure for us. I do not believe either that it was just random chance we were born here but that is up for a philisophical debate. Migrendel, one thing I must say about you is I do like you for giving me the benefit of the doubt w/out hammering me every time I post. Migrendel, use me as a example. What would I have to do, in your opinion, to be liable for a charge of treason?

[migrendel]

I would say selling military secrets to Iraq, performing espionage for Al Qaeda, or doing something like John Walker Lindh did would constitute treason. The type of criticism you are referring to is called sedition, and whether it can be punished criminally is a matter of some debate. In the famous Pentagon Papers case, the New York Times published a classified military document, was enjoined by the federal government for doing so, and the Supreme Court ultimately allowed it to go to press. The law of sedition, from what I can gather, really is taken on a case by case basis, mainly because incidents of it are relatively rare, and there are no sweeping rules governing it, just the interplay of the national security interest and the freedoms of speech and press.

[NHPolitico]

In the wake of Ronald Reagan's passing, I decided to come back to the political forums I used to frequent and see what people had to say about it. In the past, certain well intentioned Democrats on this forum have asked me why I HATE their party so much, and why a seemingly intelligent fellow like myself would be reduced to partisan anger and bitterness at the opposition.

Well, listed below are some prime examples of why I feel that in the 21st Century, there are two kinds of people in the United States.

1. Americans
2. Members of the Democratic Party

Listed below are just a few of the comments on Reagan's death at www.democraticunderground.com and www.democrats.com

Now many of you keep insisting to me that THESE KIND of Democrats do not represent the majority of your party, but there are literally hundreds of posters saying the same sort of hateful rhetoric, and I see no repudiation of their comments from the Democratic masses.

"Rest in Peace. IN HELL!"

"No, on a slow-turning spit."

"The hysteric media outburst has already begun, his crimes against humanity notwithstanding. The blunt idiocy of that national self-deprecating spectacle makes me sick to my stomach. Other than that, I'll proceed to celebrate the news in private. For now."

"How many people died of HIV who would be alive today if not for Reagan? How many jars of ashes did we have to throw on Reagan's White House? How many acres of quilt did we have to sew? How many protests, how many marches? How many years and how many deaths just to get the bastard to say the g word AIDS in public? Let alone do anything about it. I'm glad he's dead. I hope he suffered at least half as much as my lover suffered. Though I doubt he did. His kind never do."

"I have nothing but contempt for St. Ronnie. He set this country back years and years, and planted the seeds of unfathomable human misery. Glad he's dead."

"As for me- i just hope they bury him within chucking range of a paper bag full of dogsh**t from the closest public access...well...i got a joy, joy, joy, joy....down in my heart...down in my heart...i got a joy, joy, joy, joy....down in my heart to stay!"

"Good riddance. One less asshole on the planet."


For the sake of not boring you, I won't post all of them, since that would make this thread entirely too long. If you want to see this stuff for yourself, the websites are listed above. Go and see and what the Democratic Party has become.

Remember when Democrats BOOED Trent Lott at Paul Wellstone's funeral and turned it into a left wing political rally that looked like the October Revolution of 1917? I assure you that Republicans will not boo Bill Clinton or any other Democrat at Reagan's funeral, and there will be no anti-Democratic speeches where Reagan's son gets up on a podium (like Wellstone's son DID) and scream at the top of his lungs about how evil the other political party is....

Actually, that isn't logical.  Here's how you should have set it up:

1. Americans
2. People who post outrageous and stupid things on democraticunderground.com and democrats.com

Now, you don't find many of Class 2 here at Atlas Forum, do you? And besides, you can just ignore those who do show up. They are trolls. The forum has decided, with Dave's consent, that this is for intelligent conversation between people about politics (and other stuff).  So, come back, unless you think the Forum is overrun with Class 2 posters.

[Nym90]

Freedom of the press should be absolute, even in war time. Freedom of speech and the press is one of the most fundamental American liberties. It makes no sense to fight a war in the name of defending American ideals when we fail to uphold them at the same time in this nation.

That's what makes us better than the terrorists...we believe in these fundamental liberties, not only in theory but in practice as well, and they do not. Let's leave the censoring of views to the totalitarian dictatorships.

Now, if it can be proven that the press is saying and printing false statements, then they should be prosecuted for libel and slander. Lying is not constiutiontally protected free speech.

However, the media should be allowed to, and in fact have an obligation to in my view, report on scandals such as Abu Ghraib regardless of the consent of the DoD. Of course the DoD isn't going to consent to allowing something to be reported on if it is damaging to the Administration. That would be true of all Presidents.

[Ben.]

You've been spending too much time on the Net, Mark
Most Democrats do not share the views of those morons on DUI, just as most Republicans do not share the views of those morons on Freekrepublic.

 Hit the nail on the head AL ... Mark yeah we have liberals here, but we have moderates and conservatives and libertarians it a rich patchwork, the idiots in places like DU and FR are just that and what is more they are far out on the fringe... I have not heard a high profile Dem or any large numbers of Dems attack Reagan apart from isolated Liberals and I’ll direct you to Rell as his is so extreme its crazy, he's like Migrendel without the civility and intelligence  

[MarkDel]

You've been spending too much time on the Net, Mark
Most Democrats do not share the views of those morons on DUI, just as most Republicans do not share the views of those morons on Freekrepublic.

 Hit the nail on the head AL ... Mark yeah we have liberals here, but we have moderates and conservatives and libertarians it a rich patchwork, the idiots in places like DU and FR are just that and what is more they are far out on the fringe... I have not heard a high profile Dem or any large numbers of Dems attack Reagan apart from isolated Liberals and I’ll direct you to Rell as his is so extreme its crazy, he's like Migrendel without the civility and intelligence  

Ben,

Free Republic is NOT the same as Democratic Underground. I have taken many "contrarian" positions at Free Republic and have never been banned like you were at Democratic Underground.

[migrendel]

I agree with you, Eric. The Constitution doesn't change because we are in an armed conflict, and no form of exigency can impair freedoms of speech and press, both of which are not qualified by the text of the Constitution, and only by limited circumstances (e.g. slander, libel, incitement) under Common Law.

[nclib]

In the wake of Ronald Reagan's passing, I decided to come back to the political forums I used to frequent and see what people had to say about it. In the past, certain well intentioned Democrats on this forum have asked me why I HATE their party so much, and why a seemingly intelligent fellow like myself would be reduced to partisan anger and bitterness at the opposition.

Well, listed below are some prime examples of why I feel that in the 21st Century, there are two kinds of people in the United States.

1. Americans
2. Members of the Democratic Party

Listed below are just a few of the comments on Reagan's death at www.democraticunderground.com and www.democrats.com

Now many of you keep insisting to me that THESE KIND of Democrats do not represent the majority of your party, but there are literally hundreds of posters saying the same sort of hateful rhetoric, and I see no repudiation of their comments from the Democratic masses.

"Rest in Peace. IN HELL!"

"No, on a slow-turning spit."

"The hysteric media outburst has already begun, his crimes against humanity notwithstanding. The blunt idiocy of that national self-deprecating spectacle makes me sick to my stomach. Other than that, I'll proceed to celebrate the news in private. For now."

"How many people died of HIV who would be alive today if not for Reagan? How many jars of ashes did we have to throw on Reagan's White House? How many acres of quilt did we have to sew? How many protests, how many marches? How many years and how many deaths just to get the bastard to say the g word AIDS in public? Let alone do anything about it. I'm glad he's dead. I hope he suffered at least half as much as my lover suffered. Though I doubt he did. His kind never do."

"I have nothing but contempt for St. Ronnie. He set this country back years and years, and planted the seeds of unfathomable human misery. Glad he's dead."

"As for me- i just hope they bury him within chucking range of a paper bag full of dogsh**t from the closest public access...well...i got a joy, joy, joy, joy....down in my heart...down in my heart...i got a joy, joy, joy, joy....down in my heart to stay!"

"Good riddance. One less asshole on the planet."


For the sake of not boring you, I won't post all of them, since that would make this thread entirely too long. If you want to see this stuff for yourself, the websites are listed above. Go and see and what the Democratic Party has become.

Remember when Democrats BOOED Trent Lott at Paul Wellstone's funeral and turned it into a left wing political rally that looked like the October Revolution of 1917? I assure you that Republicans will not boo Bill Clinton or any other Democrat at Reagan's funeral, and there will be no anti-Democratic speeches where Reagan's son gets up on a podium (like Wellstone's son DID) and scream at the top of his lungs about how evil the other political party is....

MarkDel,

It's good to have you back on the forum and I hope your family is well.

Although I don't condone celebrating anyone (in this case Reagan) death, I don't think this is a partisan issue. After Wellstone's passing, I went to Yahoo's boards (not even a partisan resource unlike democrats.com), and the anti-Wellstone rhetoric was amazing. I heard remarks like:

"At first I thought I cared...until I realized he was a Jew."

"True enemy of gun owners' rights..I hope he burns in hell."

This is even more despicable than than Reagan remarks, considering that Wellstone's death was a sudden tragedy. There are jerks on both sides of the aisle.

[classical liberal]

Mark, I sicerly hope that you are back to stay.  We suffer for an unfortunate lack of good Republicans on this forum.  In sheer numbers alone, we are out numbered 2-1 and most of those who are Repblicans are basically Jugheads (not mentioning any names), but there are only 6 of so good, intellectual, knowledgable Republicans/Conservatives left here.

I hate begging, but I would like you to come back and stay.

Am I a "good, intellectual, knowledgeable Republican"?

[ATFFL]

Early on in this thread there was a question of what makes one a moron.

I think it is fiar to say that if you have been participating in a thread that has done nothing but go in circles for several days, were participating on day one or two and are still participating on day six, well, I have some bad news for you . . . .

What we need to do is find some common ground, and I think we can all agree that, no matter what we think of Ann Coulter's politics, she is one hot babe.

[migrendel]

Trederick, while I think she is in immaculate physical condition, she doesn't have a pretty face.

[??????????]

bump. what a great thread.

[opebo]

It was.  Man I miss Migrendel.

[??????????]

Libs, this was a real poster.