Joe Biden 2020 campaign megathread v3 (pg 45 - mass-dropout aftermath)

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/reilyseanconn/status/1211841759661178881

https://twitter.com/aznmike1214hot1/status/1211982206488285186

[GeneralMacArthur]

https://twitter.com/reilyseanconn/status/1211841759661178881

https://twitter.com/aznmike1214hot1/status/1211982206488285186

Ouch, guess Sanders doesn't beat Trump.

[PSOL]

Joe Biden wants to end prison profiteering.One of his top fundraisers is a major player in Prison healthcare
Another blatant lie to earn progressive street cred.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1211864972357013504?s=20

I don't understand how someone really believes this.   It can be hard enough for someone with an MD to learn to code, why would it be easy for a manual laborer?  Of course some will have this latent skill but you can't count on it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Joe Biden wants to end prison profiteering.One of his top fundraisers is a major player in Prison healthcare
Another blatant lie to earn progressive street cred.

I don't see how this guy is "prison profiteering."  He runs a health care company that provides health insurance for prisoners.  Is simply anyone who runs a for-profit organization that's in any way connected to prisons a "prison profiteer"?

Even if he is, the progressive demand that you endorse 100% of the views and activities of 100% of your donors, or else you're a hypocrite, is just ridiculous.  I donated to Biden and there are several positions I don't agree with him on.  The Intercept could write an article saying "Joe Biden wants a two-state solution in Israel, but one of his top donors, GeneralMacArthur, wants Israel to occupy Palestine."

Stop reading The Intercept, guys.  It's just as bad as Breitbart when it comes to lying and spinning half-truths about the Democratic Party.

[PSOL]

Joe Biden wants to end prison profiteering.One of his top fundraisers is a major player in Prison healthcare
Another blatant lie to earn progressive street cred.

 Is simply anyone who runs a for-profit organization that's in any way connected to prisons a "prison profiteer"?

You know, I really don’t know how to respond to this high density post without getting banned. How do you respond to someone who answered his own question?

[brucejoel99]

Joe Biden wants to end prison profiteering.One of his top fundraisers is a major player in Prison healthcare
Another blatant lie to earn progressive street cred.

Prison healthcare contracts aren't the same thing as contracting out the actual incarceration. Indeed, some services can definitely be managed through the use of private contracts. Of course, the actual prison system shouldn't be, & all contracts ought to be subject to Inspector General reviews, but why disagree with the existence of prison healthcare contracts if the providers thereof don't hold any influence over incarceration rates (which they seemingly don't)?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The idea that imprisonment is in itself morally unjust is a fringe belief that candidates like Biden are never going to embrace.

Companies that provide vital services to the prison population are doing nothing wrong as long as they do the job well and fairly. It's a world apart from using prison labor or running private prisons.

I can't wait for this primary season to be over and silly season with it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Joe Biden wants to end prison profiteering.One of his top fundraisers is a major player in Prison healthcare
Another blatant lie to earn progressive street cred.

 Is simply anyone who runs a for-profit organization that's in any way connected to prisons a "prison profiteer"?

You know, I really don’t know how to respond to this high density post without getting banned. How do you respond to someone who answered his own question?

You could try engaging respectfully and laying out an easy-to-understand case for why you're right and I'm wrong.  That's just my suggestion though.

Here's another one for you.  A couple years ago the internet was obsessed with "The Whole Shabang" potato chips, which are made by a company that sells food to prisons.  Apparently the chips are really delicious and unique and after prisoners get out, they still try to order them wholesale directly from the manufacturer.

Now, I'm pretty sure that company isn't a non-profit; after all, why would they be?  They invented a recipe for some delicious, low-cost chips and earned a contract to supply to prisons.  This is America, you deserve to reap your reward for succeeding in making something that benefits people.

According to this definition, though, they're just as much "prison profiteers" as this Biden fundraiser guy.  Of course, Biden's plan was to stop for-profit prisons, not for-profit corporations in the prison supply chain market, which makes the headline ludicrous in the first place.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The idea that imprisonment is in itself morally unjust is a fringe belief that candidates like Biden are never going to embrace.

Companies that provide vital services to the prison population are doing nothing wrong as long as they do the job well and fairly. It's a world apart from using prison labor or running private prisons.

I can't wait for this primary season to be over and silly season with it.

At this point, the primary season feels like a neverending loop of the extreme left inventing these purity tests wholecloth and seeing if they stick, so they can use them to smear the liberal candidates.

"Providing for-profit health care to prisons is evil" doesn't feel like it will stick the same way "raising money in a wine cave makes you corrupt" has.

[heatcharger]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

I don't agree.

The Democrats have to tell coal workers that they'll lose their jobs and be re-trained.  It's a bullet they simply have to bite.  You can't lie your way out of it.  The only reason Trump can lie his way around it is by saying "f*** the environment, we're keeping coal" (coal workers have been shedding jobs anyway).

So how do you phrase it?  Biden's phrasing doesn't seem particularly bad at all.  "If you can do X you can damn sure do Y" makes it sound complementary of coal workers, like you guys are so tough and smart you're definitely up to this challenge.

[brucejoel99]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

There's good reason to support it. If any of the other campaigns are savvy, then they'd actually do themselves well to support it as well.

[Senator Spark]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1211864972357013504?s=20

I don't understand how someone really believes this.   It can be hard enough for someone with an MD to learn to code, why would it be easy for a manual laborer?  Of course some will have this latent skill but you can't count on it.

Looks like Biden doesn't understand frictional unemployment. This transition doesn't happen that quickly. There goes WV hard for Sanders again.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

I don't agree.

The Democrats have to tell coal workers that they'll lose their jobs and be re-trained.  It's a bullet they simply have to bite.  You can't lie your way out of it.  The only reason Trump can lie his way around it is by saying "f*** the environment, we're keeping coal" (coal workers have been shedding jobs anyway).

So how do you phrase it?  Biden's phrasing doesn't seem particularly bad at all.  "If you can do X you can damn sure do Y" makes it sound complementary of coal workers, like you guys are so tough and smart you're definitely up to this challenge.

Or better yet, just give these miners workers' comp for life.  Re-train those who are willing and able to code, or work in the green energy sector, or whatever, but at the same time recognize that expecting an entire sect of workers in one industry to simply transition to a completely different one is just plain unrealistic.

To my knowledge, there is no candidate bold enough to propose that.  Yang's UBI probably comes closest.

[GP270watch]

 This is asinine. The idea that you're going to turn miners into programmers is dumb. Now if you say you'll start with their young people and give them stem education from young that's a different story.

 The better transition for coal miners is green energy jobs and infrastructure support/construction from an expanded healthcare system or public infrastructure projects.

 The idea that mining coal has anything to do with the high level mathematics involved in advanced programming is laughable. Biden is so out of touch.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

I don't agree.

The Democrats have to tell coal workers that they'll lose their jobs and be re-trained.  It's a bullet they simply have to bite.  You can't lie your way out of it.  The only reason Trump can lie his way around it is by saying "f*** the environment, we're keeping coal" (coal workers have been shedding jobs anyway).

So how do you phrase it?  Biden's phrasing doesn't seem particularly bad at all.  "If you can do X you can damn sure do Y" makes it sound complementary of coal workers, like you guys are so tough and smart you're definitely up to this challenge.

Or better yet, just give these miners workers' comp for life.  Re-train those who are willing and able to code, or work in the green energy sector, or whatever, but at the same time recognize that expecting an entire sect of workers in one industry to simply transition to a completely different one is just plain unrealistic.

To my knowledge, there is no candidate bold enough to propose that.  Yang's UBI probably comes closest.

Wait, remind me, what's Sanders' plan for the millions of people who would be put out of work by eliminating the health insurance sector under M4A?

The Democratic Party has been saying we need to retrain and transition coal miners for over a decade now.  This isn't some novel Joe Biden position.  The number of coal miners has declined 40% since 2010.  There are five times as many workers in the solar energy industry as there are in the coal industry.

What's the Republican Party's plan for this?  The top five coal mining companies in the United States all filed for bankruptcy in the last five years.  Murray Energy just filed in October!  Coal workers are gonna lose their jobs no matter what.  Biden's position is to give them job training programs to transition to new careers.  What's Trump's position?  To chant "WE LOVE COAL" at his rallies and then do nothing?  What are the other Democratic candidates' positions?

[heatcharger]

I don't agree.

The Democrats have to tell coal workers that they'll lose their jobs and be re-trained.  It's a bullet they simply have to bite.  You can't lie your way out of it.  The only reason Trump can lie his way around it is by saying "f*** the environment, we're keeping coal" (coal workers have been shedding jobs anyway).

So how do you phrase it?  Biden's phrasing doesn't seem particularly bad at all.  "If you can do X you can damn sure do Y" makes it sound complementary of coal workers, like you guys are so tough and smart you're definitely up to this challenge.

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

There's good reason to support it. If any of the other campaigns are savvy, then they'd actually do themselves well to support it as well.

Biden's framing is better and less insulting than Hillary's. The problem with his statement isn't that software can't be a good landing spot for ex-coal miners -- it certainly could. The issue is implying that coal miners' skills and/or work ethic will easily translate into programming. This is a false promise at best. And, without getting too into the esoterics of computer science, the massive number of job openings in software won't be filled by regulars who've taken an introductory programming course. You need a real computer science education to qualify for a whole lot of those jobs.

Retraining programs aren't a terrible idea, I just don't like selling people a promise of a cushy programming job when that's not easily achievable nor is it something they really want. And when that doesn't work out, their trust in government plummets even further.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

The coal miners learning to code thing is easily the dumbest thing he’s said all year. We’ll see if any of the savvier campaigns pick up on it.

I don't agree.

The Democrats have to tell coal workers that they'll lose their jobs and be re-trained.  It's a bullet they simply have to bite.  You can't lie your way out of it.  The only reason Trump can lie his way around it is by saying "f*** the environment, we're keeping coal" (coal workers have been shedding jobs anyway).

So how do you phrase it?  Biden's phrasing doesn't seem particularly bad at all.  "If you can do X you can damn sure do Y" makes it sound complementary of coal workers, like you guys are so tough and smart you're definitely up to this challenge.

Or better yet, just give these miners workers' comp for life.  Re-train those who are willing and able to code, or work in the green energy sector, or whatever, but at the same time recognize that expecting an entire sect of workers in one industry to simply transition to a completely different one is just plain unrealistic.

To my knowledge, there is no candidate bold enough to propose that.  Yang's UBI probably comes closest.

Wait, remind me, what's Sanders' plan for the millions of people who would be put out of work by eliminating the health insurance sector under M4A?

Yes, this would need to be considered in any debate with regard to M4A, but you can bet that white-collar workers would be much easier to retrain for new jobs than blue-collar ones.  Regardless... this is not the Sanders thread, is it.

The Democratic Party has been saying we need to retrain and transition coal miners for over a decade now.  This isn't some novel Joe Biden position.  The number of coal miners has declined 40% since 2010.  There are five times as many workers in the solar energy industry as there are in the coal industry.

What's the Republican Party's plan for this?  The top five coal mining companies in the United States all filed for bankruptcy in the last five years.  Murray Energy just filed in October!  Coal workers are gonna lose their jobs no matter what.  Biden's position is to give them job training programs to transition to new careers.  What's Trump's position?  To chant "WE LOVE COAL" at his rallies and then do nothing?  What are the other Democratic candidates' positions?

The Green New Deal, for all its inexactness, at least gives Democrats a framework to build their program around environmental ideals and traditional Dem values like economic justice.  AOC supports a federal job guarantee.  That may or may not be the best solution to this problem, but it goes a hell of a lot further than most of what we've heard in this campaign.

[Pericles]

This was the full Hillary quote on coal miners

Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let’s reunite around politics that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these under-served poor communities. So, for example, I’m the only candidate who has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right, Tim? (addressed to Tim Ryan)

And we’re going to make it clear that we don’t want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories. Now we’ve got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don’t want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce energy that we relied on.

It's not insulting at all as the full quote and is a reasonable position, however of course the bolded bit was all that people ended up hearing. Politics isn't fair, voters aren't going to research and appreciate the nuance of Biden's position. What he said sounds bad, and it will be a negative for him going forward.

[Rookie Yinzer]

https://twitter.com/TulsiWarCrimes/status/1212098414261014529?s=20

[BP🌹]

Even if he is, the progressive demand that you endorse 100% of the views and activities of 100% of your donors, or else you're a hypocrite, is just ridiculous.  I donated to Biden and there are several positions I don't agree with him on.  The Intercept could write an article saying "Joe Biden wants a two-state solution in Israel, but one of his top donors, GeneralMacArthur, wants Israel to occupy Palestine."

Comparing small donors to big donors is absurd and you know it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Even if he is, the progressive demand that you endorse 100% of the views and activities of 100% of your donors, or else you're a hypocrite, is just ridiculous.  I donated to Biden and there are several positions I don't agree with him on.  The Intercept could write an article saying "Joe Biden wants a two-state solution in Israel, but one of his top donors, GeneralMacArthur, wants Israel to occupy Palestine."

Comparing small donors to big donors is absurd and you know it.

FEC regulations stipulate that nobody can donate more than $2800.

How do you know I haven't donated $2800?

And since the next thing you'll say is "This guy was a bundler", how do you know I haven't texted my friends and told them to donate to Biden?

These are all things that are well within the power of the average citizen if you really care and think your money will make a difference.

At any rate, you're missing the point.  Biden has millions of donors and plenty of them are responsible for more money flowing into his campaign than this one guy, whom The Intercept falsely asserts disagrees with Biden on this one minor part of his campaign platform.  What a scandal!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1211864972357013504?s=20

I don't understand how someone really believes this.   It can be hard enough for someone with an MD to learn to code, why would it be easy for a manual laborer?  Of course some will have this latent skill but you can't count on it.

Biden can learn to program well or STFU.

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1212179439536226309