$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[Person Man]

Okay, here we go. Senate now voting on motion by Sen. Nelson to send the bill back to committee.

That's why what McConnell is doing is called the "nuclear option". There is now no stopping the democrats from doing whatever they want to make order in the Senate as difficult as possible. This is what McConnell bargained for when he decided to lock out the opposition. With just a week left before a shutdown.. I don't see this ending cleanly.

[Person Man]

Next Vote: 2 ET: Cardin motion to send bill back to committee.

My god, when will this end? This is so silly even if within the rules

This is what McConnell bargained for when he decided to go nuclear on tax reform.

[Person Man]

So when this (presumably) passes the Democrats should hang every aspect of this monstrosity around the neck of every Republican officeholder in the country. And if they don't win in a historic landslide next year, I will officially have lost faith in everything.

Or that the Democratic Party has totally failed in opposition.

[Person Man]

I'm glad theyre passing it. Only makes 2018 worse for them

Here is a slight historical question. Ignoring whether laws and legislation are good or bad for the people, when was the last time a party in power was significantly *helped* in a midterm by legislation they had passes in the years and months prior to the midterm elections?

Was it 2002, 1998?

Well, everyone was really excited about their free money in the mail in 2003...but that was all overshadowed by the war. What happened in 1998 besides the GOP being penalized (though they still technically won) for being assholes?

[Person Man]

Someone is about to get cucked.

Yeah, Flake and Corker predictably (amd hilariously) already did by Trump.

But we already knew they were eunuchs coming into this.

[Person Man]

If I understood correctly, the House bill could really raise taxes on people like me on graduation tuition waivers at private universities by taxing the waiver as income.  Many of us have very little money and loads of debt, and they want to act like we are high rollers. I should be out by the time this would go into effect, and take limited courses at the moment, but man...

I don't know the details, so I would love if someone could explain this isn't as bad as it sounds.

Don't tax me. Tax that guy behind the tree!

Would more revenue be generated by people who can or cannot afford to pay more taxes?

[Person Man]

Remember when John Boehner excrociated the Democrats about the ACA?

“HAVE YOU READ THE BILL?”

It was a joke, you see. The phrase now reads, “HAVE YOU WRITTEN THE BILL?”

[Person Man]

Are they really going to vote on a bill with handwritten annotations on it? Really?

This is just more evidence of their illiteracy. At least they aren't drawing pictures.

[Person Man]

Are they really going to vote on a bill with handwritten annotations on it? Really?

Is that allowed anymore?

reporters are tweeting that it's not uncommon to have handwritten notes on margins.

I'm not sure it's quite this messy though.

Yeah. This is window licker league tonight.

[Person Man]

This is going to either be a bitch in conference or immediately be taken to Court for vagueness.

[Person Man]

Sorry for asking a stupid question. I haven't been following the tax debacle all that closely. How are the senate getting around the Byrd rule to pass this with 51 votes?

I'd like to see an answer to that too.

Also, why all this doomsday rhetoric from the Democrats? If I'm not mistaken the law takes effect in 2019 and if Democrats win the trifecta next year they can simply repeal it. There just won't be enough time for it to make irreparable damage.
And unlike ACA and the Republicans, I don't think this law will be much more popular by then.

How are democrats supposed to obtain the senate, house and presidency by 2019?

By next year I mean 2020.

We can just run on repealing this law for 8 years if need be. It's not acceptable. Even if it takes 16.

[Person Man]

Running on raising taxes is always gonna be super risky and democrats knows it. That's why they are so depressed right now and probably why the GOP end up supporting this terrible bill. Even if it is unpopular it is probably electorally powerful because it is so easy to attack anyone who is running on higher taxes.

Eating the rich, especially when they are now being subsidized even more isn't a terrible idea. I'm worried about the Democrats in 2020 complaining about how Trump is a sugar daddy for deplorables the same way Romney complained about punks and bums voting for more welfare for themselves.

[Person Man]

This thread has turned into AIDS

Yep. I am going to urge "tough sister" TG to come in here to restore order or something. I am getting too old to handle mass insurrections like this. Anyway, we have way too many posts here that are borderline personal attacks, and chat about your beliefs suck even more than mine, and so forth. It is very much like recess at an elementary school play yard. Odd since the minimum posting age here is 14.

With current Global Top Standards of "decorum" being the way they are, who is anyone to judge?

[Person Man]

A bill with F_CKING illegible hand written edits in the margins was passed! F_CK REPUBLICANS AND THEIR VOTERS.

You can just tell it was a Republican too: bad handwriting and tons of basic spelling mistakes

Which themselves will bring up Constitutional questions.

Didn't that basically happen to Obamacare?

Not to this level.

[Person Man]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Sorry.  Not sure I get your feedback.  I back this plan partly because unwinding the marriage tax penalty as  well as unwinding of federal subsidies for high tax state/local governments.  I also back it as a way to starve the beast which in turn would lead to reduction to various welfare programs.  The creation of more jobs was never a goal for me to support this plan.  I agree that on the short run there will be an economic sugar high in the corporate tax rates and lead to greater economic activity which helps Trumps re-election.  On the whole I OPPOSE this aspect of this plan since it risks higher inflation.  So not sure what any of this has to do with number of jobs or in particular industrial jobs which I guess would lead to more pollution.  Of course Trump would want people to believe that this plan will lead to more industrial jobs.  I am not sure of that and I really do not care.  The goal for me is and always will be reduction of the welfare state.

You completely missed my sarcasm.

Anyway, there will be no reduction in the welfare state. The political wherewithal for that isn't there: it wasn't in 2005 when Bush's Social Security plan failed; it wasn't this year when healthcare reform failed.

Most of us happen to like taking care of poor people. You don't because you are a selfish, hateful person.

I think it has something to do with Confucian thinking. Hierarchy is very important and there is no virtue of asking something of your seniors while being unable to offer anything in return.

[Person Man]

Sorry for asking a stupid question. I haven't been following the tax debacle all that closely. How are the senate getting around the Byrd rule to pass this with 51 votes?

I'd like to see an answer to that too.

I don't think anybody answered this, or did I miss it?

They used the FY 2018 reconciliation instructions for this bill, so they only needed 51 votes period.

The vast majority of tax proposals are related to the budget, so it's not that hard to construe an all-encompassing tax bill without violating the Byrd Rule. Some minor stuff was removed but overall the bill doesn't increase the deficit after 10 years (due to budget gimmicks) so it passes the Byrd Rule.

The bill also had stuff unrelated to the budget (abortion, ANWR, etc.). How did they survive the Byrd bath?

Personhood didn't.

[Person Man]

I noticed that Pence cast a tie-breaking vote for Cruz's amendment. What does Cruz's amendment do?

It extends 529 savings accounts, which parents use to save money for college, to k-12 expenses as well.

I thought that was Byrded out.

[Person Man]

A bunch of affluent blue staters are gonna get screwed and move to swing states. Good job GOP.

Affluent *liberal* blue staters, too.

I hope they move to Florida.