Should Israel remove Hamas from power with force?

[TheReckoning]

This is the fundamental question.

Should Hamas be allowed to remain in control of Gaza?

Or should Israel remove them from power, with all that entails?

[dead0man]

somebody has to, and no one else will (because like most pro-Palestinians, they don't actually care about Palestinians)

[Progressive Pessimist]

No. Get the hostages back, and then try to rebuild Gaza and earn back even a modicum of good-will.

Keep security forces in Gaza, if necessary, but Hamas cannot truly be destroyed.

[SWE]

Clearly they have no idea how to do that and I don't think they should be killing anyone who they think is vaguely near a place Hamas might be until they figure that out

[S019]

How is No at a majority in this poll?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Israel trying to destroy Hamas through military means, with the current status quo in place, is good for Hamas. Ergo, it should try to reduce Hamas's power by changing its own domestic civil rights policies. If it combined that with bombing and working with Gazans in good faith, like it did in the 1980s and it built the infrastructure Gaza relies on today, both Jews and Gentiles in the region would generally be safer and Iran would have less of a wedge to use against them.

[Vice President Christian Man]

Israel trying to destroy Hamas through military means, with the current status quo in place, is good for Hamas. Ergo, it should try to reduce Hamas's power by changing its own domestic civil rights policies. If it combined that with bombing and working with Gazans in good faith, like it did in the 1980s and it built the infrastructure Gaza relies on today, both Jews and Gentiles in the region would generally be safer and Iran would have less of a wedge to use against them.

Israel isn’t perfect but its civil rights record towards Muslims is better than Palestine’s towards Jews.

[Vice President Christian Man]

No. Get the hostages back, and then try to rebuild Gaza and earn back even a modicum of good-will.

Keep security forces in Gaza, if necessary, but Hamas cannot truly be destroyed.

Military force is the only way that they can get the hostages back and that’s if they’re still alive. Hamas isn’t going to give them up in good faith, at least not without a massive prisoner exchange which I doubt either party would agree to.

[KaiserDave]

Clearly they have no idea how to do that and I don't think they should be killing anyone who they think is vaguely near a place Hamas might be until they figure that out

Well said

[Antonio the Sixth]

This is fundamentally not how counterinsurgency works. I can't believe we have to have that discussion after Iraq, Afghanistan, and hell f**king Vietnam if you want to go that far back. Every single f**king time you try to root out a fighting force that's embedded into the general civilian population through sheer military force, you invariably fail, but in the process slaughter a whole bunch of civilians and radicalize the survivors (thus creating a whole new generation of militants). It just doesn't f**king work.

And the worst part is, it's pretty obvious Bibi and his cronies know this. They know this is achieving nothing for Israel's long-term safety, but that's not the point - the point is Bibi's short-term political survival. What makes me sad is all the useful idiots in the US who genuinely seem to buy the idea that this war is actually about Israel's safety and preventing another October 7. The amount of delusion you have to be under to claim that is really something else.

[TheReckoning]

This is fundamentally not how counterinsurgency works. I can't believe we have to have that discussion after Iraq, Afghanistan, and hell f**king Vietnam if you want to go that far back. Every single f**king time you try to root out a fighting force that's embedded into the general civilian population through sheer military force, you invariably fail, but in the process slaughter a whole bunch of civilians and radicalize the survivors (thus creating a whole new generation of militants). It just doesn't f**king work.

And the worst part is, it's pretty obvious Bibi and his cronies know this. They know this is achieving nothing for Israel's long-term safety, but that's not the point - the point is Bibi's short-term political survival. What makes me sad is all the useful idiots in the US who genuinely seem to buy the idea that this war is actually about Israel's safety and preventing another October 7. The amount of delusion you have to be under to claim that is really something else.

Israel isn’t really conducting a counter-insurgency. There are large swathes of Gaza, including Rafah, that are under full control of Hamas.

Also. ISIS was an insurgency that was eliminated. The idea that insurgencies always win is completed false.

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

No, because they clearly are incapable of doing that. The war has been going on 7 months and yet 3/4 of deaths are women and children, with thousands more buried under flattened buildings.

[VBM]

No. Get the hostages back, and then try to rebuild Gaza and earn back even a modicum of good-will.

Keep security forces in Gaza, if necessary, but Hamas cannot truly be destroyed.

Because progressives would rather kick the can down the road and leave it as a problem for future generations to deal with, rather than make some morally difficult decisions

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Israel trying to destroy Hamas through military means, with the current status quo in place, is good for Hamas. Ergo, it should try to reduce Hamas's power by changing its own domestic civil rights policies. If it combined that with bombing and working with Gazans in good faith, like it did in the 1980s and it built the infrastructure Gaza relies on today, both Jews and Gentiles in the region would generally be safer and Iran would have less of a wedge to use against them.

Israel isn’t perfect but its civil rights record towards Muslims is better than Palestine’s towards Jews.

There's no singular Palestine to speak of here. In my view anyhow, Israel has been effectively in control of the trajectory of the status quo for a while. It defeated Arab states and secured its own existence. It has failed to successfully protect its imperial core completely because it's focused on trying to achieve maximalist goals instead. Which isn't good and leaves an opening for the Iranians.
They sought to close that opening.
Whether or not it's wise to try to remove Hamas wholesale is dependent on this broader picture. History didn't start on 10/7.