US-Israeli Relations After the Election

[ingemann]

I'm not really the biggest fan of Israel, and yes technical allowing Jews to migrate to Israel and not Palestinians under the slogan "right to return" is racist.

But really people how much lack of connection to reality do you have to lack, to make a statement so mindblowing idiotic/stupid/moronic. This is really on the level of then someone said that it was racist by women to choose sperm donor with a racial criteria.

For Israel to open up it borders to free Palestinian immigration is at very least suicide of the Israeli state.

[ingemann]

I'm not really the biggest fan of Israel, and yes technical allowing Jews to migrate to Israel and not Palestinians under the slogan "right to return" is racist.

But really people how much lack of connection to reality do you have to lack, to make a statement so mindblowing idiotic/stupid/moronic. This is really on the level of then someone said that it was racist by women to choose sperm donor with a racial criteria.

For Israel to open up it borders to free Palestinian immigration is at very least suicide of the Israeli state.

If the state is inherently racist, there's a good argument for suicide.

I hope that doesn't count on a individual level, as if you take the consequence of that belief, we will sadly never read your insightful posts again.

[ingemann]

If I'm racist, you're racist.

Of course everyone and everything is inherent racist, but I don't think that's a good reason for all of humanity to commit collective suicide.

[ingemann]

We're not talking about actual death though, we're talking about metaphorical suicide, an institution ceasing to exist. Or actually not even ceasing to exist. Just changing to be not racist. My point was that if being not racist changes the state so much that the original idea of the state can be said not to exist anymore, then the original idea of the state is not worth saving.

I often attack Israel for their actions. But it took long for me to be able to do so, simply because I hated to be in the same category as people saying this kind of smug ignorance without any kind of connection with reality. You ask the Israeli to let Hamas move in beside their children, you ask Israeli to let in people into their state, who talk about murdering them and their children. You talk about letting in a group of people who have shown again and again in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Gaza, Egypt etc. how they treat other when they comes in majority.

You ask the Israeli to choose hardship and maybe death of themselves and their children to avoid looking racist to a spoiled privileged college kid from USA.

[ingemann]

I'd say offer any Israelis in the West Bank Palestinian citizenship. I imagine they'll use their right of return to Israel, but who knows.

Imagination and reality don't always mesh.  In some future historical tome of The Rise and Fall of the State of Israel this election just past will be a marker where the two-state solution was dealt its final death blow, tho in truth the settlements killed it long ago.  The only question now is how the eventual one-state solution will be reached, and how bloody it will be.

They said this in 2013, and they said this in 2009. Something can't die ten thousand times. Which in all likelihood means it's still alive.

I love this comment. It's wonderful attack on the doomsaying which dominate the debate sometimes.

[ingemann]

Israel did win, but they can not get away with an ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and without it they risk minority status in the long run + they risk getting the South African treatment from the world community.

The idea that India and China should have an interest in supporting Israel over Arab countries is absurd. Both countries need oil.

The Arab world is fading in terms of its importance to global oil markets. And if you have been paying attention, the Arab world isn't that interested in a Palestinian state right now. At least not any of the Oil producers. Hamas is aligned with Erdogan and the Muslim Brotherhood, and they have zero faith in the PA to hold them off. It is safer for the Saudis and Gulf States to have Israel in military control of Gaza and the West Bank than to risk Hamas getting it.

The problem are whether Arab countries are fading as a factor, Israel is a minor state, which is not worth a bad relationship with the Arab and many Muslim countries over, unless you have some cultural or sentimel reason to upkeep a good relationship with them instead of the Arabs over

[ingemann]

Yes and it's not like when you see the Israeli economy, you're that impressed. It's not bad, the BOP is negative, but not disasterous, the foreign trade is relative low for a developed economy of their size, but again not a disaster, it's more or less comparative to the Portuguese BOP right now. but it's not a economy with a lot of room for independent RnD, if USA stopped supporting their RnD and EU stopped buying Israeli military products, Israel would not be able to still throw the necessary resources into it.