Quebec General Election 2012 (4th September)

[RogueBeaver]

Debate between Charest and Legault starts in less than an hour.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Presumably the thing to do is set up a provincial party with links to the NDP but which isn't quite the same thing - call it the Parti Socialiste or something. And just let it run from there.

[RogueBeaver]

My bad: debate's at 9 ET, 1 hour.

CS: Loose links yes, formal alliances no. Those have ended badly historically for federalist parties.

[RogueBeaver]

Here's a write-up. In sum, no needle moving. Both scored points but nothing that hasn't been said umpteen times before.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/21/01-4567025-choc-legault-charest-sur-leconomie-et-lintegrite.php

[Hatman 🍁]

Why exactly are only the two of them debating?

[RogueBeaver]

Why exactly are only the two of them debating?

Because this was the second of 3 one-on-one debates. Yesterday was Charest-Marois, tonight Charest-Legault. Tomorrow is Marois-Legault. All of them with "moderators" who asked questions and not much else. Shouting matches and crosstalk as bad if not worse than federal ones, so I watched them all muted/captioned to spare myself the headache.

As for why they had 3 1-1 debates, no idea.

[Hatman 🍁]

Is the QS opposing this?

[RogueBeaver]

Is the QS opposing this?

Francoise David was in the first debate Sunday night, which had all 4 leaders. She actually had the best performance.

[Hatman 🍁]

Why doesnt she get to be in the 1 on 1 debates?

[RogueBeaver]

Because that's how the networks set it up. Plus you'd need 3 additional debates. The whole idea was silly. No huge outcry like with Elizabeth May though.

[Hatman 🍁]

p*ssies

[MaxQue]

Why doesnt she get to be in the 1 on 1 debates?

Because they are left-wing and than TVA belongs to the same group than the Sun newspapers.

[Hatman 🍁]

Why doesnt she get to be in the 1 on 1 debates?

Because they are left-wing and than TVA belongs to the same group than the Sun newspapers.

Ahhh

[lilTommy]

I remember reading somewhere Khadir and TVA had falling out? or a yelling match? not sure... But the format is not right. I heard their logic was to include leaders of parties"most likely to form government" weak argument.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecvotes2012/story/2012/08/21/quebec-votes-2012-election-voter-turnout-storify.html
The CBC is all over this, probably cause thats their community (anglos), and they are talking about this election; with such a dis-taste for Charest those who didn't vote last time out of the "my vote won't matter" is being replaced with "i can't stand any of them". which is worse? The PQ might not win but CAQ could. Its also something the PLQ should worry about with the NPDQ starting up; places like NDG (from what i've been told, can see) Saint-Henri - Sainte-Anne, Verdun (we've already mentioned these and ok these aren't west island really) But the NDP did win Pierrefond-Dollard, came very close in Lac-Saint-Louis federally so that could (very big stretch at could) win Nelligan and Robert-Baldwin... or give the PLQ a fight.

[Talleyrand]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/22/quebec-liberals-take-lead-over-pq-after-weekend-leaders-debate-poll/

Liberals now on 35%, with PQ at 29% and CAQ at 24% (QS has 9%). Apparently a 63/125 majority on a uniform swing. Also, Francoise David was voted the winner of the debate with 40%. Is this an outlier or does it represent actual movement? If so, what would be the reason(s)?


 http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1244499--charest-family-tombstone-vandalized-in-sherbrooke

Several tombstones, including that of Charest's uncle were vandalized in Sherbrooke. His grandparents' tombstones are located in the same cemetery, but were left untouched.

[toaster]

I'm curious, for those leftist who are nationalist, what is more important to you?  Voting PQ because they are more progressive (or, left), or voting Liberal because they are nationalist?  The Green Party is just as right leaning, on policy and the economy, as the Liberals, and the CAQ are even more to the right.  You really have no option.  I think to myself, if the NDP and Liberals, nationally, wanted to split up Canada, but the Conservatives wanted to keep it together, I would still vote NDP because I couldn't bring myself to elect a Conservative government.  I think many Quebecers have this problem.

[Hatman 🍁]

Nationalist is the wrong word. You're thinking of federalist.

[toaster]

Nationalist is the wrong word. You're thinking of federalist.

Right, thanks.  How would you think a left-federalist would vote?

[Hatman 🍁]

Nationalist is the wrong word. You're thinking of federalist.

Right, thanks.  How would you think a left-federalist would vote?

I would vote UCQ, but they're only running in 20 ridings. But, they are running in Hull which is where I would live if I were in Quebec, since it's right across the river.

Anyways, Rogue Beaver mentioned a poll from Nicolet, but didnt link to it so, here are the numbers:

CAQ: 31%
ON: 28%
PQ: 25%
PLQ: 16%

Very surprising how well the ON is doing. I know their leader is running there, but still.

[lilTommy]

I'm curious, for those leftist who are nationalist, what is more important to you?  Voting PQ because they are more progressive (or, left), or voting Liberal because they are nationalist?  The Green Party is just as right leaning, on policy and the economy, as the Liberals, and the CAQ are even more to the right.  You really have no option.  I think to myself, if the NDP and Liberals, nationally, wanted to split up Canada, but the Conservatives wanted to keep it together, I would still vote NDP because I couldn't bring myself to elect a Conservative government.  I think many Quebecers have this problem.

I've already said, I'd vote QS, first and for most. But I'd vote for a social democrat before i voted for a liberal and if the means voting PQ so be it. Doesn't mean i support sovereignty at all. Actually if you take the votecompass on CBC, you will see that the PQV (Greens) are actually in the same quadrants as QS, ON... infact i was tied PQV and QS so... greens are all over the map really

I think the problem is also that the PQ and PLQ are black and white; while the issue is probably closer to being shades of grey. I'm not a sovereigntist but i do believe in Quebec's right to decide its own status and a 50+1 is the standard. i also believe that if Canada is divisible so is Quebec... a whole other topic eh

Nicolet - wow, i'm surprised too, but ON and QS have an agreement, i think that might help to have given him what 5% or so?

[Hatman 🍁]

I'm thinking my distaste for Charest would mean I would support the PQ over the PLQ, but the PQ is pretty disgusting too. That's a big 180 for me compared to how I felt when Charest was facing off against Bouchard. I hated Bouchard and the BQ/PQ with a passion in the 90s.

[RogueBeaver]

Given how viciously the Peqs are Anglo-baiting this cycle, I say pox on everyone's house.

[Holmes]

I'm thinking my distaste for Charest would mean I would support the PQ over the PLQ, but the PQ is pretty disgusting too. That's a big 180 for me compared to how I felt when Charest was facing off against Bouchard. I hated Bouchard and the BQ/PQ with a passion in the 90s.

Really? I could never vote for the PQ. I'd probably vote for QS with a bag over my head.

[Hatman 🍁]

I should be clear that I would never vote PQ either. Just that I would marginally support them over the Libs.

[Poirot]

You could always vote Parti Nul. Fringe group running in only 10 ridings. It doesn't have a platform, they are there for voters to show discontent, like a none of the above. Instead of not voting they offer a way to show dissatisfaction.