Religious Right hypocrites cheer Trump at summit (user search)
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  Religious Right hypocrites cheer Trump at summit (search mode)
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Author Topic: Religious Right hypocrites cheer Trump at summit  (Read 5935 times)
pbrower2a
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« on: October 14, 2017, 02:34:26 AM »

Let me guess .... trump approached the podium with a bible in his hand, and all the bird-brains looked at him like the next coming of Christ.

But if Barack Obama held a Bible the Religious  Right would be convinced that it was all for show to hide that he is a Muslim.

(Cue the duck that serves as a spokesman for an insurance company). .
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 10:54:56 AM »

Meanwhile, liberal hypocrites in Hollywood lecture us on ''women's rights'' and the evils of Trump while their industry is chock full of sexual predators. Where is your criticism of their hypocrisy? These people routinely help finance liberal campaigns, so you can't say they have no significant political influence.

  

if they are really only tolerating him to essentially milk what they can policy-wise, why are they going out of their way to be so supportive?
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Many people have personal behavior inconsistent with their stated beliefs. Hypocrisy is far more the norm than the exception in human nature. We all fall short of moral perfection. In Christian terms, this is sin. But unpleasant as hypocrisy is, I can think of worse. The hypocrite at least recognizes the validity of behavioral standards higher than his own. A thoroughly evil person might recognize no such standards at all.

"Hollywood" has been infamous as a moral cesspool since the silent-picture era. But such has been the reputation of the stage, where money relates more to the expression of talent than to the production of tangible output like bread or steel. Command and control as is possible in manufacturing, corporate farming, or government agencies is far more difficult to maintain in entertainment. If you are 'Wanda Houston' and you work in a food-processing plant, then you can't get away with much in your personal life and must make hard choices on what you do without. If you are Whitney Houston you can get away with all sorts of indulgence, including cocaine, until the cocaine kills you. If you are 'Howard Weinstein' and you are a manager of a fast-food restaurant, then you can't get away with a 'casting couch' at your place of work. If you are Harvey Weinstein you could exploit your control over which actresses get parts in your usual cinematic successes.

We did not know this stuff until it was disclosed on news media.  But so it is with a politician who rails at abortion and then is found having tried to convince a mistress heavy with child to have an abortion (now that is hypocrisy) or a gay-baiter who is caught soliciting gay sex (likewise). And don't forget the money scandals that have nothing to do with hypocrisy, as with bribe-taking.

One of the few reliable markers that distinguishes the entire Right from the entire Left is optimism in human nature in general. Liberals, democratic socialists, leftists, and Commies alike believe that goodness is the norm in human nature. They expect leaders (including themselves) to be morally better than  the average because human goodness is essential to good leadership. They reject the idea that the best hope for Humanity is everyone for himself. In contrast, conservatives, reactionaries, and fascists believe that people are motivated solely by primal drives; success excuses anything. Humanity is 'fallen' or depraved, and we might as well see the world as does the pickpocket in Casablanca: that the world is full of vipers.

People on the Right, including the Religious Right, expect to get burned in business deals, marital and family relationships, and bureaucratic dealings... and are quick to see themselves as helpless victims. People on the Left are more likely to look unsympathetically upon anyone who falls short of clear standards of decency. So it is with the trigger-happy cop, the tax cheat, the dealer on inside information, the spouse-beater, the bribe-taker or donor, and the sexual abuser of children.      

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There were plenty of warnings. The "grab her by the (crotch)" quote is practically an admission of sexual assault. Staffers beating up people who heckled him was another warning. (You turn to the cops to bust people for disorderly conduct). Ideological inconsistency applies to fools  liars. At the level at which he operates in business or politics, those who say one thing to a crowd in San Francisco and its opposite in Amarillo are lying in one place or the other.  Truth is not a convenience; it is all that we can reliably work with.

Donald Trump is a demagogue, and upon taking office a demagogue who has proved an electoral success must decide which promises to betray and hence which voters to betray. Of course we should have all known that a real estate tycoon was unlikely to govern against his obvious class interest. His business model depends upon getting rents as high as possible and costs (including school taxes) as low as possible in order to get maximal profits. He sold out the masses  for plutocrats similarly egregious in putting their gain, indulgence, and power above everything else. This is a real-life J R Ewing, a cutthroat who wants to be loved by people who don't really know him.

But if he is a demagogue, he is a symptom of social depravity and not the worst of it. Complex as human relationships have gotten due to some wondrous technologies and lives that no longer fit the crude master-and-servant pattern, we need to make some adjustments. Does anyone still think K-12 education adequate for preparing people for dealing with human diversity, for making wise choices with time, for not making political decisions that blow up in their faces, for not falling with sophisticated con artists. When people could reliably expect to live satisfying lives as sharecroppers and industrial laborers in times of very low expectations, people could be satisfied with 'solid eighth-grade educations'. Today, mere K-12 education is inadequate for anything more than rigid functioning in jobs that allow only animal-level survival.

So we need some formal logic (philosophy), some basic understanding of the techniques of behavioral manipulation (psychology), and the reality of trade-offs (economics).  People need to know that one gets no good results from overt contradictions, the dirty tricks of hstlers, and that there is no such thing as a free lunch.   Philosophy, psychology, and economics are typically survey courses in the first two years of college. High school? I would not rush them.          
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 09:53:04 AM »

Here's a primer on why it makes absolutely no sense for religious conservatives to support Trump:

1. He said in an interview that he doesn't need God to forgive him for anything.
2. He is full of pride, greed, and lust, which are three of the Seven Deadly Sins, and exploited hateful rhetoric as a candidate.
3. He is twice divorced and remarried, and his current wife has a long history of posing nude for pornographic magazines.
4. He made much of his fortunes from casinos.
5. He said several times in the Republican debates that Planned Parenthood does "great work" (which, incidentally, would have been political suicide for any of the other GOP candidates)
6. I'm probably forgetting something, but please feel free to add it.

If he had run as a Democrat, religious conservatives would have denounced him as a mortal threat to America by pointing to these facts, and quite possibly would have told their congregations that they would go to hell if they voted for him.  Jesus said that we could judge a tree by its fruits.  Does this sound like the kind of fruits of a true Christian?

Why should laws be made on the basis of the Bible again?
I don't know, ask Alabama's next Senator.

As a secular liberal I would have had problems on all but (5).  As for (6), grabbing women by the crotch without their consent is sexual assault (as grabbing someone by an arm could be assault, but not sexual in itself) and rape should there be penetration even by a fingernail. If you are a defense attorney, you do not want me on a rape case in which someone has grabbed a woman by the crotch and inserted so much as a fingernail (deliberately or recklessly) into her vagina without her consent.

I'll give you (7): he is a demagogue, and demagogues never get good results for the nation or a national subdivision in which they govern or for which they legislate. We Americans have generally rejected demagogues handily, and this time we did not reject Donald Trump enough.

I could accept an atheist or agnostic, but that said, an atheist or agnostic seeking my vote had better have some moral compass. The Seven Deadly Sins include not only greed, lust, and (hubristic) pride -- but also anger. People with a moral compass know enough to constrain these no matter what their religious heritage is or even if they have no religion.

Divorce and remarriage is permissible (Ronald Reagan) -- but Nancy Reagan didn't appear even in pin-up pictures.

I have visited a casino and found the array of slot machines utterly resistible. Considering that casino gambling is just about a pure rip-off... but I would also have trouble with a politician who made his income operating strip clubs or operating as a predatory lender.  I did invest an insurance payout in the stock market, but I chose to avoid investing in firearms, gambling, tobacco, and alcoholic beverages on ethical principles. Fossil fuels was OK even if I disliked the politics of the industry.

If Donald Trump had been running as President and got nominated on boilerplate liberal appeals, then I would have had to vote for the Republican opponent. I have a conscience.

Donald Trump: the Playboy philosophy meets Ayn Rand. How godless can one get?         
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 11:58:54 AM »

If he had run as a Democrat, religious conservatives would have denounced him as a mortal threat to America by pointing to these facts, and quite possibly would have told their congregations that they would go to hell if they voted for him.  Jesus said that we could judge a tree by its fruits.  Does this sound like the kind of fruits of a true Christian?

Hold on a second. Isn't this logic more-or-less criticising Christians for not voting as bigoted sectarians? You're saying that it's hypocritical for Christians to vote for non-Christians regardless of policy as they should only support Presidential candidates they believe are 'saved' by God. That's basically a religious test. To stay consistent, should evangelicals refuse to vote for Sanders in 2020 on the grounds that he's Jewish?

I think evangelical support for Trump should be celebrated by progressives as it shows how admirably non-religious and accepting of cultural liberalism (divorce, sexual liberation) American conservatives are, instead preferring a more wide-based, secular American nationalism. It should be proof, if anything, that liberalism won the culture war of the 90s and 00s.
No, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of religious conservatives in voting for a candidate who was diametrically opposed to nearly everything they stand for, simply because he had an R next to his name.

I still don't get the "hypocritical" part.  To say that Donald Trump, the 2016 GOP Presidential Nominee "was diametrically opposed to nearly everything (Evangelicals) stand for" is, in public policy terms, just not true.  The stated positions Trump took in the campaign are far more in line with what Evangelicals would desire in a President than the positions Hillary Clinton would take.

I am appalled that anyone claiming to be a devout Christian could vote for someone who violates moral tenets of Christianity so blatantly as Donald Trump or Roy Moore. If one is to call oneself part of some moral majority, then at least vote for someone more moral than the rake.

Would Jesus have grabbed a woman by the crotch? Tried to date a 14-year-old girl? Made money as a crony capitalist?

If your shtick as a political candidate is that you are a devout, believing Christian, then maybe you had better act as a Christian. 
 
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Not voting for the hypocrite is a choice. I'm not saying that it is a good idea to vote for an irreligious malefactor.

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Grabbing women by their crotches is blatantly un-Christian. Getting rich through coruupt means isn't Christian.
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