oh louisiana.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Wonderful bill. Hopefully every state passes a bill like this someday.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

     You seem to presuppose that gun control makes it significantly less likely for those who want to shoot up a college campus to be able to do so. I posit that that is not the case.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

     You seem to presuppose that gun control makes it significantly less likely for those who want to shoot up a college campus to be able to do so. I posit that that is not the case.

That is pretty much what I was saying. Gun control won't stop someone who really wants to shoot up a campus from trying. Gun laws might dissuade a few people who might have wanted to, but so might the knowledge that people may be carrying them for self-defense. Sure, most people won't carry a gun to school, but all it takes is one person carrying one to defend themself to save many lives.

i honestly doubt that someone would be discouraged to bring a gun to school to shoot people just because they know others will be carrying them as well.  my other argument is that someone who is inclined to shoot people is more likely to carry a gun than someone who isn't.  it's very similar to what i said above about rapists and rape victims.

     Yet if a gunman comes to shoot 50 kids & just one of them happens to be carrying a gun, the shooter's rampage could meet an early end. It isn't to say that this would completely end all campus shootings, but it could potentially save numerous lives if we suppose that it does not significantly increase the odds of a campus shooting occurring, but does increase the odds of a gunman being killed before killing all or most of his targets.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

     You seem to presuppose that gun control makes it significantly less likely for those who want to shoot up a college campus to be able to do so. I posit that that is not the case.

That is pretty much what I was saying. Gun control won't stop someone who really wants to shoot up a campus from trying. Gun laws might dissuade a few people who might have wanted to, but so might the knowledge that people may be carrying them for self-defense. Sure, most people won't carry a gun to school, but all it takes is one person carrying one to defend themself to save many lives.

i honestly doubt that someone would be discouraged to bring a gun to school to shoot people just because they know others will be carrying them as well.  my other argument is that someone who is inclined to shoot people is more likely to carry a gun than someone who isn't.  it's very similar to what i said above about rapists and rape victims.

     Yet if a gunman comes to shoot 50 kids & just one of them happens to be carrying a gun, the shooter's rampage could meet an early end. It isn't to say that this would completely end all campus shootings, but it could potentially save numerous lives if we suppose that it does not significantly increase the odds of a campus shooting occurring, but does increase the odds of a gunman being killed before killing all or most of his targets.

and at the same time it increases the likelihood that someone with violent tendencies would bring a gun.  so if instead of killing 50 he kills 10 (and there's a very good reason why i say he) and we have 5 such incidents instead of 1, the results are the same.

     Again, someone who wants to shoot up a school campus would likely not be affected by gun control. Someone who brings a gun for self-protection purposes (& would not bring one if it were illegal) hardly fits the ideal profile for a potential shooter with violent tendencies. Such a person would also likely not shoot more than 1-2 people if an incident were to occur, & would probably be capable of doing comparable damage unarmed. I slightly doubt that the pencil-necked geek who got dunked in toilets in grammar school would be the first one to get into a spur-of-the-moment gunfight.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I think you're overestimating the number of people who would bring a gun simply to defend themselves.  I can tell you that the last thing most college students have in mind is defending themselves on the case of such an incident.  You're also forgetting that in order to protect yourself and other students you need to be a good shooter yourself or you could cause more harm than good.

     I think you overestimate the number of students who'll bring guns just to have them to settle disputes compared to the number who brought them illegally anyway or the number who'll bring them for self-defense. I suspect it would go from 1 incident kiiling 50 to 5 incidents killing 15-20, but only time will tell.

     I do think that people who carry guns in self-defense should take a course to learn gun use & safety, but I'm not sure how best to implement that. Maybe make it a college course which to enroll in you would need proof of ownership & registration of a legally purchased firearm.

[Associate Justice PiT]

the reason they have strict gun controls is because of the high crime rates. 

There is no gun control on college campuses. Anyone can bring a gun anywhere on campus. There are no metal detectors, no security checkpoints, no bag searches, nothing.

he said that places with strict gun control have higher crime rates and was using that as an argument to why gun control is ineffective.  that's what i was responding too.  he wasn't talking specifically about college campuses.

I live on Long Island where we have very strict gun control, we have among the lowest % of gun owners in the entire country and one of the lowest crime rates as well.

     Um, you live in suburbia. Considering the tendency of suburban people to 1) not commit loads of crime, 2) be afraid of guns, & 3) generally support gun control, it seems to me that low crime rates & strict gun control are both caused by it being suburban, not low crime being caused by gun control.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.

Yes, crazy people shouldn't have guns nor ex-fellons that used a gun to commit a crime.  Explosives should be highly restricted, as should fully automatic weapons.  Guns shouldn't be allowed inside of businesses, homes or other private property if the owner of the property doesn't want them there.

You want more compromise, change the Constitution.

     I pretty much agree with this, though I would distinguish that explosives should be subject to a higher level of restriction than automatic weapons, as explosives are basically impossible to use for self-defense purposes. An M4A1 at least could be used to defend a house from a home invasion robber, even if it is extremely excessive for the task.