muon2's Diplomacy game

[muon2]

There has been a lot of interest in a game of traditional Diplomacy, based on this thread. It takes seven players, and I agree to judge the game. The official rules (5th edition) are here and includes a lot of examples. There is a abbreviated wikibooks version, too. In 2009 smid and I judged a game on Atlas that can give you a feel of how it works.

The game I linked above was based on turns of one move per week. Orders were sent by pm to the judge by Friday midnight and the adjudicated position for the next turn was available by Sunday. That worked well so I propose that for this game, too. The judge can declare vacation breaks based on player requests, such as over the Christmas holiday. Note that the game took 6 months to play, so beware before signing up.

To test interest, I'll use the turn schedule for sign up. Requests to play should be posted in this thread by Friday Oct 5, midnight US Central Time. If seven or more requests are made by then countries will be assigned by lot and Diplomacy will begin that weekend. If there are more than seven requests, those who do not get countries are welcome to watch and kibbitz, and would have first crack at any vacancy that occurs when a player retires or goes AWOL.

[muon2]

I have no interest in playing this, especially if we are going by the old 1914 based map.

I used to play this game sometimes, and it was always annoying when one was committed to working as a team with another player to advance a plan that would help both players, and then the other players fails to follow through with their part of the plan.

Backstabbing, breaking alliances, and players failing to follow through are essential parts of the game. One of the key elements is determining who to trust. Without that it's just a pure strategic board game.

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I'm not sure what you mean, since the traditional map begins in 1900, with the first move in Spring 1901.

[muon2]

May I suggest a grey press lightning format? One move per week is almost as bad as the old play by post days...

The idea of 1 move a week is to make it as much like play-by-mail as possible.

I'm not familiar with a grey press lightning format, and Google didn't turn up anything. Is this an equivalent to face-to-face with the whole game happening in 2-4 hours?

[muon2]

Request to Play???

Is this the correct venue to get on the list, or do I need to PM muon2 as well?

Posting here is sufficient.

[muon2]

I’d like to join if it’s not too late.

Requests to join are open until Friday. It's not first come, first serve.

[muon2]

can we claim nations ahead of time? because if so, I'd like to reserve the United States.
(consider this a signing in)

If you haven't played before I recommend reviewing the links in the OP. As I indicated in the OP the assignment of Great Powers (also called countries) will be determined by lot from the list of everyone who expressed interest. If there are more than seven interested players then players who did not get countries to start will have first call on any country that becomes available if a player leaves the game.

[muon2]

Seven have signed up, so the game is on. The countries have been assigned randomly:

Austria - TJ in Oregon
England - Pope Michael Bolton/jdb
France - NOVA Green
Germany - Cath
Italy - YPestis25
Russia - Baconomics/Bacon King
Turkey - GeorgiaModerate

Negotiations are open by pm or whatever means are agreed to. Feel free to post questions or general statements on this thread. The first move for Spring 1901 is due by pm to muon2 by 11:59 pm Friday Oct 12.

I'm using JDip to generate maps and orders. The abbreviations on the map are acceptable for orders. Here is the starting position.

[muon2]

Austria and Italy effectively start the game with only 2 units for the most part with how the game is set up.

That all depends on their diplomacy.

[muon2]

I want to share the answers to a couple of questions I received by pm.

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Yes, I'll accept superseding orders up to the deadline. Provisional orders have the advantage of avoiding a No Moves Received situation.

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Not generally. The order for the army is simply to the destination, and the order for the fleet is to convoy that army as in: A Ank–Sev; F Bla C A Ank–Sev. An exception is when the army could move by either land or convoy and the choice is to go by convoy, then the army order should include words like "via convoy" to make it clear (see the 5th edition 2008 rules linked in the OP).

[muon2]

I implied, but did not make it clear in the OP. The time zone is US Central Time, that is CDT or CST as appropriate to the week of the year.

[muon2]

This is an impropmtu poll of the players in light of BKs abdication from Russia. I can continue with the turn and all units will hold. Alternatively I can hold off the move for a week and try to find a replacement. Unless everyone agrees to the second choice moves go through as scheduled.

Of course there is another possibility: someone reads this or finds someone in the next few hours to take over Russia. If they post here by the deadline and pm me moves for Russia, I'll count it as an early Russian revolution.

[muon2]

I could play Russias moves for 1 single turn, but I would not want to play any longer, and would prefer to drop out in later turns for someone else to take over.

If someone else more interested than I am is also able to rush in moves before the deadline, I request that muon ignore the orders I sent and use the orders from a more interested player.

Of course if the other players all decide to request the extension, then ignore the moves I sent in that case as well.

Thanks for the offer. If I don't get another player, or I don't get 6 votes in favor of waiting, I'll take your moves and we'll start looking for a permanent Russia.

[muon2]

Without 6 votes to delay the turn, solid4096 (perhaps playing the role of Finance Minister Sergei Witte) steps in for the abdicating Tsar of Russia.

Results for Spring, 1901 (Movement)
   
   
General Notices:   
      No retreating units; retreat phase skipped.Order resolution
      completed on 13-Oct-2018 at 09:36:31 CDT
   
   
Order Results:
   
   
      Austria:
            A bud - ser
            F tri - alb
            A vie - tyr
     
      England:
            F edi - nwg
            A lvp - edi
            F lon - nth
     
      France:
            F bre - mao
            A mar Supports A par - bur
            A par - bur
     
      Germany:
            A ber - swe by convoy
                  No convoy order received, A ber Holds.
            F kie - bal
            A mun - sil
       
      Italy:
            F nap - tys
            A rom - tus
            A ven Holds

      Russia:
            A mos - ukr
            F sev - bla
                 Bounced with ank (1 against 1).
            F stp/sc - bot
            A war - gal
   
      Turkey:
            F ank - bla
                Bounced with sev (1 against 1).
            A con - bul
            A smy - con
     


And this is the position to start Fall 1901.



The map symbols above seem a little clearer to me than the default I used for the starting position. Let me know if you think otherwise.

solid4096 indicated that his assistance was for the short term only and he needs to be replaced. Any volunteers for Russia will be accepted. At present the deadline for Fall 1901 moves stands at 11:59 pm CDT on Fri Oct 19.
 

[muon2]

Ernest's peanut gallery analysis for Spring 1901/Fall 1901.



Russia:
Except as a diplomatic chip, there's no reason them to not do F bot-swe as militarily it has nothing else useful to do  It has multiple ways to take Romania with the best ways depending on whether Russia is allied with one them or is facing an Austro-Ottoman alliance.

You could volunteer to take over Russia.

[muon2]

This is a reminder that we still need a permanent replacement for Russia in the game. Please feel free to solicit a player to take over. I will continue to try as well.

[muon2]

My plan with a Friday deadline was to handle retreats and adjustments over the weekend so that the game was set by 0 hour Monday. I have no problem stretching the regular move cycle, it's just my experience that it becomes more likely that players will find a need to leave as the game gets longer. My preference is to keep with a week, but stretch individual moves when there is enough advance notice, such as around holidays. But if everyone wants to extend, then I will.

[muon2]

S'pose I could play as Russia. Anyone tell me what I should do because I have a reasonable idea of what moves I want to make.

Thanks and welcome to the game. I linked some basic resources about game play in the OP. Please feel free to pm me if you have specific questions. Your next move is due to me by pm before 11:59 pm CDT tomorrow.

[muon2]

Fall 1901

Austria: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 1.
        F alb - gre
        A ser Supports A bul - rum
        A tyr - tri
     
England: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 2.
        A edi - hol
             Convoy path taken: edi -> nth -> hol.
        F nth Convoys A edi - hol
        F nwg - nwy
     
France: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 3.
        A bur - bel
        A mar - spa
        F mao - por

Germany: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 1.
        F bal Convoys A ber - den
        A ber - den
            Convoy path taken: ber -> bal -> den.
        A sil - war
            Bounced with ukr (1 against 1).
       
Italy: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 1.
        A tus Supports A ven
        F tys - tun
        A ven Holds

Russia: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 2.
        A gal - vie
        F bot - swe
        F sev - rum
            Bounced with bul (1 against 2).
        A ukr - war
            Bounced with sil (1 against 1).

Turkey: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 2.
        F ank - bla
        A bul - rum
        A con - bul



There are no retreats needed so the position before builds is as follows



Builds available are listed in the orders for each Power, and units may only be built on unoccupied home supply centers. Submit builds before Sun 10/21 11:59 pm CDT. Once all builds are received I will post an updated winter 1901 map.
 

[muon2]

My apologies for the delay. There was a snafu on builds that I needed to sort out. The Spring 1902 Move is still due Fri 11:59 pm CDT. Note that if any unit is forced to retreat from the Spring 1902 moves I will notify the player and expect a prompt response so that we can go smoothly into Fall 1902.

Winter 1901   
        Austria: Builds A bud
        England: Builds A edi, F lon
        France: Builds F bre, A mar, A par     
        Germany: Builds A kie
        Italy: Builds F nap
        Russia: Builds A mos, A war
        Turkey: Builds A con, A smy


   
 

[muon2]

Since it is already Wed evening, I'll offer a delay if all players want it to get a replacement for England. If all six vote in favor by the time moves are due, I'll institute a one week delay. If at least one player does not vote or vetoes the delay moves will continue as scheduled.

If a new England is found before a delay is called, moves will continue as scheduled.

In any case, everyone should submit moves on time since there is no guarantee of a delay. If there is a delay moves can be changed.

[muon2]

I'm willing to be a temporary England until a more permanent replacement is found.

Since this is in without six votes for a delay. Ernest will play England for the time being. Moves remain due tomorrow night at 11:59 CDT.

[muon2]

I'm still up and the orders are all in ...

Spring 1902

Austria:
        A bud Supports A tri -> vie
        F gre -> alb
        A ser Holds
        A tri -> vie
     
England:
        No order for unit at London. Hold order assigned.
        F eng -> eng
            No unit in eng
        A edi -> yor
        A hol Supports A bel -> ruh
            Support failed. Supported unit's order does not match support given.
        F lon Holds
        F nth Supports F lon -> eng
            Support failed. Supported unit's order does not match support given.
        F nwy Supports F swe
     
France:
        A bel Holds
        F bre -> eng
        A mar -> bur
        A par -> pic
        F por Holds
        A spa -> mar

Germany:
        F bal Supports A den -> swe
        A den -> swe
            Bounced with swe (2 against 2).
        A kie Holds
        A sil Holds
     
Italy:
        F nap -> tys
        F tun -> wes
        A tus Supports A ven
        A ven Holds

Russia:
        A mos Supports F sev
        F sev Holds
        F swe Supports F nwy
            Support cut by Move from Denmark.
        A ukr Supports F sev
        A vie -> boh
        A war -> sil
            Bounced with sil (1 against 1).
       
Turkey:
        F bla Supports A smy -> arm
        A bul Supports A rum
        A con Supports A bul
        A rum Holds
        A smy -> arm
     


No retreats are needed. This is the position going into Fall 1902. I've added the place names with proper abbreviations so that there should be no confusion.



Fall 1902 moves are due by 11:59 pm CDT on Fri Nov 2.

[muon2]

I'm sorry to lose England again. In Spring 1901 Germany submitted an illegal move and Ber had to hold. Same thing with England this turn. It's not normal play, but I can notify the player of any illegal moves so that the moves can be amended. Is that what players want?

[muon2]

I'm sorry to lose England again. In Spring 1901 Germany submitted an illegal move and Ber had to hold. Same thing with England this turn. It's not normal play, but I can notify the player of any illegal moves so that the moves can be amended. Is that what players want?

I support that.  It's the same thing the email Diplomacy judges do if a player submits an invalid order.

I did not know that. In other online and face to face games I've played, illegal moves are covered by the rules as orders to hold.

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Note that the rules cover illegal orders differently than poorly written moves that are unambiguous, which are interpreted in favor of the player. For example England wrote "F Nor supports F Swe holding", and Nor isn't technically the abbreviation of any province (it could be Norway, North Sea or North Atlantic Ocean). Since there was only one of those three (nwy) that could support swe, it was interpreted that way.

As with other suggestions, if all other players want a house rule change to notify players of an illegal order submitted, we can do that.

[muon2]

I'll keep monitoring the vote on illegal move notification going forward.

Also, as it stands there is no England for the move due tonight. As before if someone wants to step in to play the turn they are welcome as long as it is before 11:59 pm CDT.