Northern Regional Committee

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

now that we have our officials, i'll introduce some motions:

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obviously these are drafts, feel free to discuss & submit amendments.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

that's fair, yeah. i withdraw res. 2 and declare cinyc's amendment to res. 3 friendly.

ah right and the asterisk was meant to point to this law.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i think the objections raised have been fair. abstain

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

can we really sustain a bicameral legislature?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

can we really sustain a bicameral legislature?

I would prefer a unicameral one, but from what I've read in this thread so far it seems most wouldn't.

My ideal legislature would be a single six-member body with three being elected from single-member districts and three being elected at-large. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

not a fan of even-numbered legislatures, but i could see either a seven-member legislature (four regional, three at-large) with no governor or a five-member legislature (three regional, two at-large) with a governor.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i doubt this scenario will actually happen, but it's always good to cover all your bases

Since nobody has proposed a formal bill since the rules were adopted, let me propose one:

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[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So to clarify what class of senators are we electing?

we have "The finisher elected first or with the most surplus shall take the longer Senate term.", doesn't that cover it?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

heck nay

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

the current bill is fine

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

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motion to end debate and vote on this version of the bill (no changes except a one-week shift)

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

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motion to end debate and vote on this version of the bill (no changes except a one-week shift)

accidentally clicked modify instead of quote

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I fixed the classes, and changed "until" October/August to "through" October/August, to make it clear that they will serve the portions of those months until we hold elections (or whatever we ultimately decide to do for regional Senators).

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switching irv/stv, clarifying the amendment stuff, minor language changes

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

evergreen - did you mean a simple majority of votes or a simple majority of those who voted on the amendments?  This matters, because there will be people who abstain or don't vote on the amendments.  There always are.  I'd propose the voters voting in the election.

a simple majority of the people who voted on the amendments, yeah.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

bear's amendment is good.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

aye

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i'd suggest we start with a principle vote between bicameral, unicameral, or modified-universal (the proposal i made in poirot's thread)

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

^In a period of relative inactivity, I wouldn't want one or two people to be making all the decisions.

I stand by the half at-large/half districted unicameral legislature plan.

i feel that would actually be less likely in a modified-universal system where anyone can butt in than in a traditional legislature. didn't classic conservative have a long run as the only active pacific legislator or something?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Perhaps some sort of combined long name that can casually be referred to as either? I recall someone else suggesting "the Northern Union of Franklin."

Really, this is probably the best compromise.

it's a bit clunky, imo. i can see "the union north" or something similar, but three components is pushing it.

anyways, in regards to cinyc's argument:

I do hope this Committee sticks with Franklin.  Anything other than just "The North."  Come on, guys...

I believe naming the region anything other than a neutral, descriptive term like North will lead to interminable fights on renaming the region something else year after year, and lead to the idiotic renaming of individual states, like in the old Midwest.  I don't want to start down that road.

is that necessarily a bad thing? it'd certainly be a driver of activity.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

OFFICIAL BALLOT

Question 1: What should be the official name of the northern Region?
[ 3 ] The Commonwealth of Franklin
[ 2 ] The North
[ 4 ] The Northern Union of Franklin
[ 1 ] Write-in: The Union North
Question 2: What should be the system of government for the northern Region?
[   ] Executive and Legislature
[   ] Legislature only
[ 1 ] Write-in: depends on the kind of legislature

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i support an official nickname, but that should be a statutory matter to be decided after the constitution is ratified.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So, if I'm correct, these are the proposals currently on the floor:


• 5 Seats, elected at-large
• 5 Seats, 3 from districts and 2 at-large
• 7 Seats, 4 from districts and 3 at-large

If there are no more proposals, I will call a principle vote tomorrow evening. There will also be a principle vote on whether or not to index the number of seats to activity at that time.

May I ask who made the first and third proposals? I think a bit more debate before the principal vote would be good to help make any additional arguments for and against each of them.

I'm also not quite sure how we could vote on whether or not to index the number of seats if we've already decided how many seats there will be...

Thanks!

i propose a mixed-member system with three members elected in first-past-the-post districts and additional members added as needed to make the assembly roughly proportional

example:

district 1: lab candidate 5, fed candidate 4
district 2: lab candidate 6, fed candidate 4
district 3: lab candidate 5, fed candidate 4

would end up with three directly-elected labor representatives and two additional federalist representatives

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Question 1: What form should the North's legislature take:
[2] 5 seats; elected at-large
[4] 5 seats; 2 at-large and 3 regional
[3] 5 seats; 3 at-large and 2 regional
[1] 5 seats; mixed-member system with 3 First Past the Post and 2 proportional
[5] 7 seats; 4 at-large and 3 regional

Question 2: Should the North's legislature be indexed to activity:
[ x ] Yes
[    ] No

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i'll start writing up a draft tomorrow if nobody has any concerns, then.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I would like to use the opportunity to again advise the Committee and reiterate my opposition to the establishment of the Lieutenant Governor's office.

When the former Northeast Region had an Lt.G, that position was abolished because few people wanted the job and because the Lt.G had little duties besides casting tie-breaking votes.  It was almost constantly vacant and seldom needed.  As an alternative, I propose that the succession line begin with the Speaker (who should hold Wiki updating responsibilities) followed by Assembly members by seniority.  In addition, I advise a principle vote on bills only passing the Assembly if they attain a majority (3) of the entire Assembly, with abstentions and non-votes carrying the same weight as nay votes.

The Northeast ultimately made the Lt. Governor a member of the Assembly nominated by the governor.  So while we didn't have a separate Lt. Governor, we still had a Lt. Governor.  Whether we should continue that tradition or just make the speaker the next in succession and Acting Governor in case of a Leave of Absence is debatable.  One problem with making Speaker Acting Governor is that then he or she couldn't run the Assembly while acting as governor, potentially bringing debate to a halt.

I would still prefer that we just not have an Lt.G and let the Assembly elect a new Speaker, but I guess the alternative is fine, too.  Just as long as we don't have the Governor running with a pre-selected Lt.G or have them run on a separate ballot line.

I would appreciate a second for a vote on these ideas if a member finds it appropriate.

or have the most senior representative be interim speaker. there's a lot of options.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I would like to use the opportunity to again advise the Committee and reiterate my opposition to the establishment of the Lieutenant Governor's office.

When the former Northeast Region had an Lt.G, that position was abolished because few people wanted the job and because the Lt.G had little duties besides casting tie-breaking votes.  It was almost constantly vacant and seldom needed.  As an alternative, I propose that the succession line begin with the Speaker (who should hold Wiki updating responsibilities) followed by Assembly members by seniority.  In addition, I advise a principle vote on bills only passing the Assembly if they attain a majority (3) of the entire Assembly, with abstentions and non-votes carrying the same weight as nay votes.

The Northeast ultimately made the Lt. Governor a member of the Assembly nominated by the governor.  So while we didn't have a separate Lt. Governor, we still had a Lt. Governor.  Whether we should continue that tradition or just make the speaker the next in succession and Acting Governor in case of a Leave of Absence is debatable.  One problem with making Speaker Acting Governor is that then he or she couldn't run the Assembly while acting as governor, potentially bringing debate to a halt.

I would still prefer that we just not have an Lt.G and let the Assembly elect a new Speaker, but I guess the alternative is fine, too.  Just as long as we don't have the Governor running with a pre-selected Lt.G or have them run on a separate ballot line.

I would appreciate a second for a vote on these ideas if a member finds it appropriate.

or have the most senior representative be interim speaker. there's a lot of options.

Is that a second?

sure. i, as well, am against having a separate lieutenant governor position (i've tried to abolish it before, in fact ).