Who ran a worse campaign Hillary Clinton Or Michael Dukasis (user search)
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  Who ran a worse campaign Hillary Clinton Or Michael Dukasis (search mode)
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Question: Worse Campaign
#1
Hillary Clinton
#2
Michael Dukesis
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Author Topic: Who ran a worse campaign Hillary Clinton Or Michael Dukasis  (Read 6069 times)
Mr. Smith
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« on: December 17, 2017, 03:31:56 PM »

Dukakis had the superior strategy [and despite a massive popular loss, a few more points would've given him a win with only 18 states], Hillary had the superior tactics [aka attacking Trump and consistently baiting him into shooting himself in the foot, without Comey it probably would've completely paid off...but she still won the popular vote]
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 01:28:33 AM »
« Edited: June 21, 2018, 01:49:56 AM by L.D. Smith, Aggie! It's Real Expenses Again »

Dukakis. I know it's the unpopular answer, but Dukakis had a much better environment to win in than she did. The eight year curse should have prevented Bush from winning just as it prevented Clinton in 2016.

Differences between 1988 and 2016:


- The country was in better shape in 1988 than in 2016

- Reagan was more popular than Obama

- The 1980s were one of the last polarizing decades ever

- Nope, about the same actually, the only difference is that Dukakis wasn't willing to go the MAGA route and point out the troubles in rural areas as Trump did. He should've won West Virginia by Trump's margins, flipped the Dakotas, Montana, California, Pennsylvania, Missouri, New Mexico, Illinois, and Maryland given those optics. Even Mondale had more guts on that, which is precisely why the Midwest, Northeast, and even California by a smidge moved left in 1984. Makes it both very depressing and wrenching at the naivety of Miracle Mike for not going hard. Hillary and Gore both did, and were only denied the benefits at the last second by outside Republicans [Comey or the SCOTUS Justices respectively].

- They were about tied towards the end sure you could argue [I often have] that Obama's boost was more artificial...but all the same, neither were as popular as Bill was at the tip end of term. And yet, Bush pushed through, Gore and Hillary didn't. Conversely, LBJ's approvals were in the dumps, but Humphrey almost made it.

- The 80's were obviously a reawakening of the polarizing trend borne of The Civil Rights Movement, which Watergate briefly tamped down. If the decade appears less so, that's just a greater condemnation of the trend afterwards...I mean "liberal" wasn't an acceptable outright insult until the 80's.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 09:49:45 PM »

Dukakis made about three errors (albeit big ones) while Clinton did virtually everything wrong.

Well, her entire strategy and direction proved wrong, sure. But that's with hindsight. With the information available at the time, we were talking about her winning South Carolina in the middle of the summer or her beating Trump by 15 points in early October.

It's very easy to look at where she lost and to say the strategy didn't work, but during the race, there wasn't any real evidence that Michigan and Wisconsin were close to toppling until it was way too late. Who knew Maine and Minnesota would end up so close? This wasn't on anyone's radar.
The other states that were close are always close, and it was easy enough to write off Iowa/Ohio when it seemed she was the favourite in North Carolina and could probably count on Florida as being more solid than it was in '08/'12.

It wasn't clear that her strategy was off as the race was playing out. And we can talk strategy all we want, but her loss had just as much to do with unfounded animus against her than any actual direction she was taking the campaign.

Michael Moore could've told you that actually.

Also, the polls were singing like crazy by the week depending on what Trump did. That isn't a good place to be.

Besides, most of her campaign was "f&*k Trump", rather than reinforcing what makes her different. She could've abandoned the Midwest and possibly had a shot and flipped the Sun Belt, or she could've gone all in on the Midwest and either way have won if she had bothered with that.

Sure there was animus, but Trump had animus too...but Trump kept going and bothered with at least a semblance of a direction.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 03:52:36 AM »

Obviously Hillary. The fundamentals predicted a GOP victory in 1988 for the most part. The whole notion that Dukakis ran some terrible campaign and was ''ruined'' by Lee Atwaters negative ads is nonsense.

Those fundamentals work for the popular vote, not the EC.

And even with the whole, EC magnifies PV thing in mind, he still didn't have to lose by 7 points. It could've and should've been close. Clearly something had to go wrong. And Atwater was clearly the guy to ensure that.
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