Evo Morales resigns

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

https://www.eldestapeweb.com/nota/el-congreso-boliviano-rechazara-la-renuncia-de-evo-morales-2019111223540

Looks like the Congress is going to declare the resignation illegitimate?

We'll have to wait to see, El Destape, owned by Roberto  "Ganó Scioli or amplia mayoría" Navarro, is one of the most unreliable news sites  in Argentina, and its writers often live in a parallel reality to that of people who aren't their brand of  kirchnerista fanatics

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

The US was damn lucky to have Washington leading the Continental Army. People with similar restraint and humilityare rarely in revolutions.

[Peanut]

Democracy taking a nosedive in South America has been evident for very long, though its most extreme manifestations are unfolding right now. It should worry all of us, of course. I could write a lot more on the subject but I'm pretty tired right now--perhaps I'll give it a shot some time.

[JA]

Are we just not going to discuss the fact that leaked audio recordings from prior to the election not only discuss plans of alleging voting irregularities as the pretext for a coup, but that US Senators Cruz, Menendez, and Rubio were named as co-conspirators in the plans?

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Bolivia-Audios-Linking-Civic-Ex-Military-and-US-in-Coup-Plans-20191105-0001.html

Here is the audio clip mentioning the senators by name (in Spanish): https://soundcloud.com/elperiodicocr/marco-rubio-bob-menendez-y-ted-cruz-en-el-plan-de-golpe-de-estado-en-bolivia

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

my thought would be abolish the midterm and leave them solely for gubernatorial races, while extending both the House and the Senate terms by two years each. A six year Presidency strikes me as too long for an executive role as powerful as POTUS.

[Lord Halifax]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

my thought would be abolish the midterm and leave them solely for gubernatorial races, while extending both the House and the Senate terms by two years each. A six year Presidency strikes me as too long for an executive role as powerful as POTUS.

An eight year Senate term is a terrible idea, even with a one term limit.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

my thought would be abolish the midterm and leave them solely for gubernatorial races, while extending both the House and the Senate terms by two years each. A six year Presidency strikes me as too long for an executive role as powerful as POTUS.

I agree that two years is too short a term for a legislative assembly, but the idea of giving a President four years of unchecked power with pliant legislative majorities is an absolutely terrible one. It would basically be the French system, which is the worst of both worlds between US-style presidentialism and Westminster parliamentarism (see the relevant thread). I much prefer the 6-year term with 3-year House terms idea, combined with a drastic curtailing of unilateral Presidential powers.

Of course, better than any of that would be to have a parliamentary system, but I guess that's besides the point of this argument.

[Lord Halifax]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

my thought would be abolish the midterm and leave them solely for gubernatorial races, while extending both the House and the Senate terms by two years each. A six year Presidency strikes me as too long for an executive role as powerful as POTUS.

I agree that two years is too short a term for a legislative assembly, but the idea of giving a President four years of unchecked power with pliant legislative majorities is an absolutely terrible one. It would basically be the French system, which is the worst of both worlds between US-style presidentialism and Westminster parliamentarism (see the relevant thread). I much prefer the 6-year term with 3-year House terms idea, combined with a drastic curtailing of unilateral Presidential powers.

Of course, better than any of that would be to have a parliamentary system, but I guess that's besides the point of this argument.

A strong president with a pliant Congress is the only realistic way to implement radical reforms (a New Deal 2.0) in the US.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It all makes me even more in favor of the Mexican system. You got one term and then you can never, ever serve again.

Which is a reaction to the Porfiriato.  Revolutionary leaders seldom know when to let go of power and let those who follow take charge, at least officially.

Of course the biggest shortcomings of the Sexenio during the period of PRI's total rule was that outgoing President pretty much picked his successor. Yet most former leaders of that era largely adhered to keeping a low profile in retirement, refraining from trying to exercise unofficial power (Luis Echeverria being one infamous example). Calles tried this with Cardenas and got himself exiled.

I think having such six years term would be beneficial in the U.S. A four years term, with the possibility of reelection, proved to be breeding disfunctionality. You essentially have one year to try doing something meaningful. Then it's the midterms campaign and after that you're already either running for reelection or become a lame duck. Frequent elections and long electoral cycles may be exciting for us, political junkies, but are not good for the country.

my thought would be abolish the midterm and leave them solely for gubernatorial races, while extending both the House and the Senate terms by two years each. A six year Presidency strikes me as too long for an executive role as powerful as POTUS.

I agree that two years is too short a term for a legislative assembly, but the idea of giving a President four years of unchecked power with pliant legislative majorities is an absolutely terrible one. It would basically be the French system, which is the worst of both worlds between US-style presidentialism and Westminster parliamentarism (see the relevant thread). I much prefer the 6-year term with 3-year House terms idea, combined with a drastic curtailing of unilateral Presidential powers.

Of course, better than any of that would be to have a parliamentary system, but I guess that's besides the point of this argument.

I mean, I oppose Presidentialism in general, but I fail to see how four years with "unchecked power" is significantly worse than three years (and, let's be honest: your system will probably give unchecked power for incumbents for six years for much of the time as well if their midterm takes place in friendly conditions. What I feel would be best is an end to the perpetual campaign of American politics, and also give state elections breathing space so they aren't drowned out by the national discourse of the congressional midterm.

back on topic though, I think it's more a military problem in Latin America that goes back to most of the nation's foundations as rebel military outposts from the Spanish Empire rather than stuff about terms and term limits. No wonder that the most stable democracy in the region, Costa Rica, has literally no official military whatsoever.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The Senate and the House have both unanimously passed a law calling for new elections under an exceptional one-time-only rules, neither Evo not his VP Álvaro García Linera will be allowed to run. No official date has been set AFAIK, but the new elections will take place somewhere in the next 120 days (and it has to be in 2020)

The results of the October elections are now officially void

Camacho said he may run for president

[Dr. MB]

The Senate and the House have both unanimously passed a law calling for new elections under an exceptional one-time-only rules, neither Evo not his VP Álvaro García Linera will be allowed to run. No official date has been set AFAIK, but the new elections will take place somewhere in the next 120 days (and it has to be in 2020)

The results of the October elections are now officially void

Camacho said he may run for president

Any idea on the MAS candidate?

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The Senate and the House have both unanimously passed a law calling for new elections under an exceptional one-time-only rules, neither Evo not his VP Álvaro García Linera will be allowed to run. No official date has been set AFAIK, but the new elections will take place somewhere in the next 120 days (and it has to be in 2020)

The results of the October elections are now officially void

Camacho said he may run for president

Any idea on the MAS candidate?

No

[SInNYC]

The Senate and the House have both unanimously passed a law calling for new elections under an exceptional one-time-only rules, neither Evo not his VP Álvaro García Linera will be allowed to run. No official date has been set AFAIK, but the new elections will take place somewhere in the next 120 days (and it has to be in 2020)

The results of the October elections are now officially void

Camacho said he may run for president

Is that "unanimous" with MAS boycotting the senate/house, or really unanimous? And has Anez definitively ruled out running? Or is it an 'either Camacho or Anez' thing?

Its hard to find English sources that say much beyond a blurb about this.

[Lumine]

Is that "unanimous" with MAS boycotting the senate/house, or really unanimous? And has Anez definitively ruled out running? Or is it an 'either Camacho or Anez' thing?

Its hard to find English sources that say much beyond a blurb about this.

Unanimous with MAS support, otherwise it would have been impossible to do anything (MAS has such supermajorities in Congress that there is no quorum for anything without them). There's some debate as to how hard they threw Morales under the bus - depends on whether you read Morales's proclaimed refusal to run again as a selfless act to prevent bloodshed, or an insincere act given his role in promoting the protests and blockades - and how firmly they stand behind him, but MAS and the acting government do seem to be working for a negotiated solution rather than a violent one, and have reached a series of agreements on other issues to normalize the situation.

Anez hasn't made any comments that I know of, but I can't see her running (or she shouldn't, if she had any common sense). Mesa should run again, the MAS has stated it will run with a new candidate (no idea who), and it seems obvious now Camacho will run, so minor candidates aside at this moment it looks like a MAS v. Camacho v. Mesa election.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Let's hope the MAS candidate wins. Belgium media already said that a new civil war is on the way in Bolivia.

[Lumine]

There's still a lot of speculation on possible candidates and not a lack of clarity, but:

Opposition: Carlos Mesa is running again, as is evangelical pastor Chi Hyun Chung (he does need to find a running mate though). Camacho seems like a sure bet to enter the race, possibly with fellow protest leader Marco Pumari as his VP.

MAS: Still in the early stage of speculation, most rumours point towards Cocalero leader Andrónico Rodriguez and former President of the Senate Adriana Salvatierra as possible heirs to Morales, which is fascinating considering both are only 30 years old. There's some talk about some of Morales's former ministers, but it doesn't seem that relevant at the moment.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

yeah, the thing with MAS is they're basically social democrats, they only seem hard left because of the international affiliations and the "weird" nature of indigenous customs to western eyes. Anybody thinking they were going to go down some sort of Maoist rebellion against the state (either because they were hoping or fearing communist revolution) was kidding themselves.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

A few days ago Morales landed in Buenos Aires and was admitted in by the new government as a "refugee"

The main condition of his refugee status (as stated by the new Foreign Minister of Argentina) is that he's not allowed to make strong political statements, something that happened almost instantly as Evo started rambling on Twitter against Añez, Camacho and Mesa


Now, Evo Morales will be accused of sedition (and maybe incentivizing terrorism) in an arrest warrant authorities are preparing to issue against him within days, interim leader Jeanine Áñez told reporters

[Intell]

A few days ago Morales landed in Buenos Aires and was admitted in by the new government as a "refugee"

The main condition of his refugee status (as stated by the new Foreign Minister of Argentina) is that he's not allowed to make strong political statements, something that happened almost instantly as Evo started rambling on Twitter against Añez, Camacho and Mesa


Now, President Evo Morales will be accused of sedition (and maybe incentivizing terrorism) in an arrest warrant authorities are preparing to issue against him within days, interim leader Jeanine Áñez told reporters

Fascists that support a military coup, and try to throw a military coup and throwing opposition leaders in prison, to win elections deserve to be hung. This applies in Bolivia and Brazil.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

A few days ago Morales landed in Buenos Aires and was admitted in by the new government as a "refugee"

The main condition of his refugee status (as stated by the new Foreign Minister of Argentina) is that he's not allowed to make strong political statements, something that happened almost instantly as Evo started rambling on Twitter against Añez, Camacho and Mesa


Now, Evo Morales will be accused of sedition (and maybe incentivizing terrorism) in an arrest warrant authorities are preparing to issue against him within days, interim leader Jeanine Áñez told reporters

Geez. His self-preservation instinct has really taken a hit from all this, hasn't it?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

There's still a lot of speculation on possible candidates and not a lack of clarity, but:

Opposition: Carlos Mesa is running again, as is evangelical pastor Chi Hyun Chung (he does need to find a running mate though). Camacho seems like a sure bet to enter the race, possibly with fellow protest leader Marco Pumari as his VP.

MAS: Still in the early stage of speculation, most rumours point towards Cocalero leader Andrónico Rodriguez and former President of the Senate Adriana Salvatierra as possible heirs to Morales, which is fascinating considering both are only 30 years old. There's some talk about some of Morales's former ministers, but it doesn't seem that relevant at the moment.

The Camacho-Pumari alliance has collapsed, due to Camacho’s leaking an audio in which Pumari requests $250,000 (supposedly to finance the campaign) and control of some customs offices. Pumari will run on his own. I saw a list going around for MAS with Rodríguez, Salvatierra, and a scattering of Evo ministers (Luis Arce?) I don’t remember, but Rodríguez seems like the frontrunner.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

A few days ago Morales landed in Buenos Aires and was admitted in by the new government as a "refugee"

The main condition of his refugee status (as stated by the new Foreign Minister of Argentina) is that he's not allowed to make strong political statements, something that happened almost instantly as Evo started rambling on Twitter against Añez, Camacho and Mesa


Now, President Evo Morales will be accused of sedition (and maybe incentivizing terrorism) in an arrest warrant authorities are preparing to issue against him within days, interim leader Jeanine Áñez told reporters

Fascists that support a military coup, and try to throw a military coup and throwing opposition leaders in prison, to win elections deserve to be hung. This applies in Bolivia and Brazil.

Anez slaps, she isn't a fascist brah

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The arrest warrant was issued a few hours ago. I very much doubt it will lead to anything concrete

[CumbrianLefty]

Anything from all the "liberals" who supported this coup?