Biden takes surprising swipe at japan during donor dinner. Labels the nation xenophobic

[gerritcole]

Isn’t the UK in a recession despite having more Indians than Welsh people at this point?

That is the legacy of empire, the brits have no right to complain

What does that have to do with what I was talking about?

Just building off your comment to say that Britain has less standing to be resistant to immigration than does Japan which defines itself as an ethno state

Does the history of the Japanese Empire not invalidate Japan’s right to be ethnically homogenous?

The Japanese empire meaningfully colonized the Korean Peninsula and Taiwan during its existence, and South Koreans and Chinese make up the larger immigrant communities in Japan. If you want to extend japans colonial domains to south east Asia during Ww2 (which I would dispute as true colonialism) Vietnamese peopl are also one of the top immigrant communities.

When people say Japan should open to immigration I doubt they mean the groups above but rather groups from the global south who would never ever be Japanese and who the Japanese don’t want to come over

[Electric Circus]

It would be one thing if this were clearly intentional (why on earth would it be?), but this comes across like Biden acting even older than he actually is.

[lfromnj]

Also lol at the idea that Russia doesn't want immigrants. Vladimir Putin is one of the most liberal leaders in the entire world when it comes to immigration. Probably only 2nd to Justin Trudeau.

Yeah, I was going to say... not only does he commit diplomatic faux pas, he doesn't even know the facts.

The funny thing is I doubt Putin really wants to correct the facts. Bringing attention to the large amounts of Central Asians in the country will never be a very popular position.

[Ashley Biden's Diary]

Disgusting beyond words. What a self righteous cretin. So glad I changed my mind mid-2020 and never cast a ballot for this man.

[It’s so Joever]

BASED!

That’s my president! Chinese Americans for Biden!!!

[Ferguson97]

The pearl-clutching here is hysterical. He’s not wrong.

[gerritcole]

The pearl-clutching here is hysterical. He’s not wrong.

No one’s cares if he’s right or wrong this ain’t algebra 2, it’s just ing stupid to keep moralizing to your allies, this preaching we do to the rest of the world over nothing is just baffling

Same principle with trump calling places sh**tholes, just stupid unforced errors

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Yes, Japan is xenophobic. And yes it's dumb to say it out loud. And yeah, most nations and people are in fact xenophobic. Even the forum clearly favours some demographics groups over others, giving depending on who it happens, some issues or crimes are not equally judged.

For Japan specifically, there is a big reason why they are xenophobic (and that applies to more countries) and is a point of view i can respect, in that over the course of human evolution and human history, xenophobic people tend to do better than xenophiles in the long run and survive as a culture, as the more xenophile ones will be absorbed into / eradicted by others.

Japan was no stranger to that, and has been on both sides of the medal (since it also has been part of the imperialist/colonialist side and done its fair share of geno-related crimes), but the nation itself adopted a very strong isolationist and in lots of ways xenophobic mindset centuries back into history, especially after its experiences with christian missonaries from Spain & Portugal, importing several things that destabilized its society, such as guns and religions which culminated in widespread domestic unrest.

Consequentionally, sakoku law was introduced. Sakoku law meant the country went in isolation for 250 years (experiencing no wars at all!). Japan remained as such until the USA opened the country by force. Dramatically behind on technology and other social sciences and practices, it resulted in the country having to adopt a western model in no time, looking specifically towards Germany given the two countries had a lot in common at the time, both having an emperor and being relatively new on the global stage. The rest is history, but it's that background that is very important in understanding why Japan went fascist.

I personally am a xenophile, because personality-wise i'm open to exploring and learning new things, and i am curious as a key personality trait that defines me. I need variation in life, and like to explore how other people or cultures solve or deal with several aspects of life. But i do understand the benefits of being xenophobe in particular in maintaing a culture and ironically also diversity, since if everyone does the same thing, there eventually would be no differences and culture at all, and it would be assimilation. This is in fact actual very contradictory because assimilation is what right wing parties actually advocate for out of xenophobia, because they consider their culture superior over another (which is racism). While i'm pro-diversity and like different cultures co-existing next to each other. The feeling I have today though is that it is very hard to do so. Social concepts such as globalization definitely have something to do with that.

A good example of how xenophobic is beneficial is the North Sentinelese tribe which today is a tribal reserve, and where everyone who attempts to enter the island is outright killed, as the American missionary John Chau experienced. I'm in favour of preserving cultures and our differences (though not by force, since it has to be individual choice), but it's also why i'm anti-forceful assimilation.

When people are against immigration this can be for different reasons. Japan today still has a unique vibe that makes it culture look unique that many other cultures basically have lost in the west, sometimes by force, such as the native american ones.

I think people generally are too oppressive in imposing norms, values and behavioral patterns over other people. America behaving as the world police imposing regime change, and telling other people and country how to lead their lives and countries, that's not how I believe it should be done. And it results mostly in detoriorating relations, especially with countries that are not our allies yet and probably leads to ironically anti-American sentiment over the world.

The irony is that telling another nation is xenophobic also is in a way xenophobic.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Xenophobia is basically the prisoner's dilemma in action again. If two cultures are xenophile, than yes obviously xenophile is preferred, but if another nation/culture being xenophobic threatens your existence as a culture than xenophobia is the preferred response. Xenophobia can both lead to other cultures being wiped out or looked down onto because of hate but also protection of your own which sometimes is necessary, which well even this century still shows us unfortunately.

It's better if everyone would be xenophile, but just like with economic equality and communism (communism vs capitalism), is humankind even ready for it? If most are xenophobic, it's basically a fairytale to suddenly change that human nature and make us all xenophiles.

My point being that there is nothing wrong with being xenophobic if it purely means preserving your own culture, but as long you're not directly threatening other cultures its existences, than i think people make it into a bigger deal than it actually is. Japan isn't behaving this way on an international stage, and has a fairly isolationist mindset today, mostly following western concensus but not being agressive itself. It barely has a military as a consequence of WW2 too today.

There's nothing wrong with xenophobia in its core, but when you start threatening other people, cultures or countries than it is. It's when it becomes racism, discrimination, colonialism or imperialism that it becomes an issue, but again it's not the easiest subject to talk about.

People condemning Japan for being xenophobic are mostly hypocrite theirselves because it basically implies you don't have a high opinion of the Japanese yourself either. It's sort of a paradox.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

And aside of that, from a diplomatic point of view, telling your ally is xenophobic is just not done. Never. That's pure incompetent diplomacy.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Isn’t the UK in a recession despite having more Indians than Welsh people at this point?

Their recession is a result of Brexit which was all about Xenophobia.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Even if it's true (I'm not familiar enough with Japanese immigration policy to have an informed opinion), Japan is a crucial eastern ally and the last thing we need is to alienate any more of them.

Japan has a declining population though it hasn't declined much at this point (this is the sort of decline that picks up speed.)

In response, Japan has increased the number of foreign nationals but not immigrants. This program is similar to if not the same as Canada's short term foreign worker program.

The obvious difference is that immigrants can put down roots in their new country like starting businesses whereas these foreign nationals can't.

https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/japan-needs-more-labour-immigration-answer

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Xenophobia is basically the prisoner's dilemma in action again. If two cultures are xenophile, than yes obviously xenophile is preferred, but if another nation/culture being xenophobic threatens your existence as a culture than xenophobia is the preferred response. Xenophobia can both lead to other cultures being wiped out or looked down onto because of hate but also protection of your own which sometimes is necessary, which well even this century still shows us unfortunately.

It's better if everyone would be xenophile, but just like with economic equality and communism (communism vs capitalism), is humankind even ready for it? If most are xenophobic, it's basically a fairytale to suddenly change that human nature and make us all xenophiles.

My point being that there is nothing wrong with being xenophobic if it purely means preserving your own culture, but as long you're not directly threatening other cultures its existences, than i think people make it into a bigger deal than it actually is. Japan isn't behaving this way on an international stage, and has a fairly isolationist mindset today, mostly following western concensus but not being agressive itself. It barely has a military as a consequence of WW2 too today.

There's nothing wrong with xenophobia in its core, but when you start threatening other people, cultures or countries than it is. It's when it becomes racism, discrimination, colonialism or imperialism that it becomes an issue, but again it's not the easiest subject to talk about.

People condemning Japan for being xenophobic are mostly hypocrite theirselves because it basically implies you don't have a high opinion of the Japanese yourself either. It's sort of a paradox.

I think you actually mean Japan preserving its homogeneity since culture is always changing due usually to technological changes.  

I don't know much about the Japanese culture but I'm sure it's different with the internet than pre internet. So, if a society/nation wants to keep its status quo culture it needs to do what you said and implement a Sakoku law (China did the same thing in 1421.)

Of course the other thing I always get back to is that Japan can choose to keep its homogeneity if it likes, but they need to understand the consequences of that choice, which is of a declining population due to a low birth rate and, most likely, a declining economy as a result of that. That's essentially what Biden was saying.

I also dispute that immigrants change a culture since culture is determined by the local environment and by a shared history. The 'culture' of the immigrant changes far more. However, that's for a different argument.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Xenophobia is basically the prisoner's dilemma in action again. If two cultures are xenophile, than yes obviously xenophile is preferred, but if another nation/culture being xenophobic threatens your existence as a culture than xenophobia is the preferred response. Xenophobia can both lead to other cultures being wiped out or looked down onto because of hate but also protection of your own which sometimes is necessary, which well even this century still shows us unfortunately.

It's better if everyone would be xenophile, but just like with economic equality and communism (communism vs capitalism), is humankind even ready for it? If most are xenophobic, it's basically a fairytale to suddenly change that human nature and make us all xenophiles.

My point being that there is nothing wrong with being xenophobic if it purely means preserving your own culture, but as long you're not directly threatening other cultures its existences, than i think people make it into a bigger deal than it actually is. Japan isn't behaving this way on an international stage, and has a fairly isolationist mindset today, mostly following western concensus but not being agressive itself. It barely has a military as a consequence of WW2 too today.

There's nothing wrong with xenophobia in its core, but when you start threatening other people, cultures or countries than it is. It's when it becomes racism, discrimination, colonialism or imperialism that it becomes an issue, but again it's not the easiest subject to talk about.

People condemning Japan for being xenophobic are mostly hypocrite theirselves because it basically implies you don't have a high opinion of the Japanese yourself either. It's sort of a paradox.

I think you actually mean Japan preserving its homogeneity since culture is always changing due usually to technological changes.  

I don't know much about the Japanese culture but I'm sure it's different with the internet than pre internet. So, if a society/nation wants to keep its status quo culture it needs to do what you said and implement a Sakoku law (China did the same thing in 1421.)

Of course the other thing I always get back to is that Japan can choose to keep its homogeneity if it likes, but they need to understand the consequences of that choice, which is of a declining population due to a low birth rate and, most likely, a declining economy as a result of that. That's essentially what Biden was saying.

I also dispute that immigrants change a culture since culture is determined by the local environment and by a shared history. The 'culture' of the immigrant changes far more. However, that's for a different argument.

Perhaps it's homogenity i meant, because yes i'm aware culture evolves due to advancing time as well.

And there are definitely not just pros but a lot of cons too, the ones you've said but also in history reduced rates of technological spread.

And I also agree that the culture of the immigrant changes far more, than the culture of the country they settle in, definitely so.

But for Japan, what doesn't really help is their language which is excessively hard to learn for any newcomer since it has little in common with basically any other language, as it is sort of a language isolate (chinese and korean languages will have some things in common but at the end it's a language isolate group). Island nations also generally are more succesful in controlling immigration to a certain limit.

And i generally consider immigration a good thing, it's just a difficult debate, but i just don't think it's appropriate to say a country is xenophobic because of it.

Sakoku law also today would never work because the closest to sakoku law one can get is basically shutting down your country in the same way countries like China do, which basically always results in an authoritarian state or regime (Iron Curtain sort of was Sakoku Law too for the population).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But for Japan, what doesn't really help is their language which is excessively hard to learn for any newcomer since it has little in common with basically any other language, as it is sort of a language isolate (chinese and korean languages will have some things in common but at the end it's a language isolate group). Island nations also generally are more succesful in controlling immigration to a certain limit.

The irony is that Chinese has more than just some things in common with Japanese, the Kanji characters.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

But for Japan, what doesn't really help is their language which is excessively hard to learn for any newcomer since it has little in common with basically any other language, as it is sort of a language isolate (chinese and korean languages will have some things in common but at the end it's a language isolate group). Island nations also generally are more succesful in controlling immigration to a certain limit.

The irony is that Chinese has more than just some things in common with Japanese, the Kanji characters.

I was referring to the kanji.

But they're not part of the same language family. The writing system was introduced by China, but Japan eventually also used hiragana for where kanji characters could not be used in their vocabulary and katakana was introduced for loanwords.

The kanji also don't stand for the same things, like one kanji in China means something else in Japan. Korea used kanji too for a while, until Sejong created the hangul system to help with literacy in Korea.

Sure, the languages have obviously had a lot of influence on each other due to proximity but other than they belong to different groups.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Given that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and its Notwithstanding Clause have come up, I'm taking a break from reading the Civilization and Capitalism series to read the book "The Last Act: Pierre Trudeau, the Gang of Eight and the Fight for Canada" by Ron Graham, this is on page 54.

These are Pierre Trudeau's views on these issues.

It's important to remember we are all creatures of our times and Pierre Trudeau was probably overly scared by World War II. It is true that Pierre Trudeau 'famously' sat out that war, but at the time he was an ardent Quebec nationalist and isolationist who didn't care about Europe. The ravages of World War II likely played a major part in changing his views.

"Deep at the core of his (Trudeau's) position was an abiding hatred of all ethnic nationalism, the belief that the people of a particular race or culture should lay exclusive and collective claim to a political territory. Trudeau saw this as a primary cause of many of the great atrocities of human history, from the tribal battles of Africa to the gas chambers of Nazi Germany. Even an ethnic nationalism based on language and customs rather than blood could never be, in his view, a truly positive or progressive force. It would always attempt to coerce the individual into the group and attend to the welfare of some of its citizens over the welfare of all. "A state that defined its function in terms of ethnic attributes would inevitably become chauvinistic and intolerant," he wrote. And since very few (if any) political states are perfectly homogeneous, persecution by the majority would compel every minority to demand a political state of its own, and on and on, until the whole world was engulfed in liberation movements and "the last-born of nation-states turned to violence to put an end to the very principle that gave it birth." Instead, different peoples, different cultures, different languages, and different religions had to learn to live side by side as individuals who freely consent to come together with equal rights and equal opportunities. And if a particular set of circumstances should make a unitary state either impractical or undesirable, he extolled the inherent diversity of federalism."

I tend to agree with this, though I don't think every ethnic nationalist state is going to descend to either Nazism or civil war and I think we've also seen that Trudeau's vision of individualism over the collective has faults as well.

On the other hand, I would go further that even a purely homogeneous state can descend into disagreement and even civil war as I agree with, for instance, Trey Parker and Matt Stone that people collectively are inherently tribalistic and seek out things to divide over. South Park did an episode on this called 'Go God Go' where everybody in the world around 2500 is an atheist due to the influence of Richard Dawkins and there is an long ongoing war between the United Atheist League and the United Atheist Alliance because both groups believe that the name of their group is the only correct name. 

I hope that isn't a spoiler because in Wiki it only says the two groups are at war over the 'great question.' But, the correct name for the atheist group is 'the great question.'

[Meclazine for Israel]

I would have Biden look at his own homeless fentanyl wasteland before saying anything about other countries.

The 10 million people coming across the southern border during his reign may appear to be somewhat linked to his advancing alzheimers.

Advancing legal immigration vs forgetting to close the door are two different things.

That is terrible diplomacy towards what is essentially an ally.

What did that lawyer say?

"He's a forgetful nice old man".

[lfromnj]

Also reminder that Biden(and probably Trump) are right now trying to block a deal where Nippon steel buys US steel despite a promise of no job cuts and with US steel floundering for the past decade. Its basically a great FDI deal with a nation that is one of our closest allies and we are for some reason trying to block this deal. If that isn't xenophobic I don't know what is.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I would have Biden look at his own homeless fentanyl wasteland before saying anything about other countries.

The 10 million people coming across the southern border during his reign may appear to be somewhat linked to his advancing alzheimers.

Advancing legal immigration vs forgetting to close the door are two different things.

That is terrible diplomacy towards what is essentially an ally.

What did that lawyer say?

"He's a forgetful nice old man".

This is a great example of argument from ignorance.

Under international law that the U.S has signed on to, there is a big difference between illegal immigration and people legally entering the country seeking asylum. The United States under Biden has barred millions of would be illegal immigrants from entering the United States, however, the Biden Administration would be in violation of American law if it barred those potentially legally seeking asylum from entering. This was the change in law that Biden sought in Congress that Trump told the Congressional Republicans to block for purely political reasons.

During the Trump Administration, they were able to get around that temporarily towards the end of the term due to Covid by using some emergency order that barred asylum seekers as well. Mexico helped with that by sealing its borders as well. However, Biden could not keep that emergency order in place forever.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Also reminder that Biden(and probably Trump) are right now trying to block a deal where Nippon steel buys US steel despite a promise of no job cuts and with US steel floundering for the past decade. Its basically a great FDI deal with a nation that is one of our closest allies and we are for some reason trying to block this deal. If that isn't xenophobic I don't know what is.

The deal should go through.
But as to these remarks as a whole: Japan is hugely foreign-curious, but I would caution against the usage of xenophobe in this context.

[TheReckoning]

I would have Biden look at his own homeless fentanyl wasteland before saying anything about other countries.

The 10 million people coming across the southern border during his reign may appear to be somewhat linked to his advancing alzheimers.

Advancing legal immigration vs forgetting to close the door are two different things.

That is terrible diplomacy towards what is essentially an ally.

What did that lawyer say?

"He's a forgetful nice old man".

This is a great example of argument from ignorance.

Under international law that the U.S has signed on to, there is a big difference between illegal immigration and people legally entering the country seeking asylum. The United States under Biden has barred millions of would be illegal immigrants from entering the United States, however, the Biden Administration would be in violation of American law if it barred those potentially legally seeking asylum from entering. This was the change in law that Biden sought in Congress that Trump told the Congressional Republicans to block for purely political reasons.

During the Trump Administration, they were able to get around that temporarily towards the end of the term due to Covid by using some emergency order that barred asylum seekers as well. Mexico helped with that by sealing its borders as well. However, Biden could not keep that emergency order in place forever.

The only country in the America’s that “asylum” claims should be taken seriously is Nicaragua.