UK General Discussion

[MaxQue]

i can't see canada 1993 happening here. the british are far too forgiving of bad governments.

Well, the Tories weren't polled so badly at the beginning of the 1993 election. They were on course of losing, yes, but they were still 2nd.
Their horrible campaign doomed them, through.

[minionofmidas]

The Welsh language stats are out as well and are mildly depressing.

In the on-the-way-to-Irish-style-uselessness sense; down in Gwynedd, up among schoolchildren everywhere?

That would be the trendline of the past 25 years...

[Phony Moderate]

I would strongly advise anyone to avoid the comments section on the BBC's main article on the Census figures.

[k-onmmunist]

comments sections on british political articles are almost always worth avoiding, due to the sheer misanthropy any reasonable person will develop from reading them.

[DC Al Fine]

comments sections on british any political articles are almost always worth avoiding, due to the sheer misanthropy any reasonable person will develop from reading them.

Fixed

[minionofmidas]

comments sections on british political articles are almost always worth avoiding, due to the sheer misanthropy any reasonable person will develop from reading them.

Any reasonable person is a sheer misanthrope already.

But comments sections are for people too dumb to even find a real forum, so what do you expect?

[Hifly]

Very happy to hear that the Labour Party will no longer be whipping MPs to vote in favour of Gay Marriage. Apparently 3 shadow cabinet members threatened to resign if the vote was whipped!

[Leftbehind]

Canada 1993 2.0 here we come?

IIRC the Reform party was polling around 8-10% until the election campaign began. Then a horrendous Progressive Conservative campaign* allowed them to shoot up to 19%. I could see this happening in Britain if UKIP avoids gaffes and the Cameron campaign stinks up the joint.

* Here's two examples of how bad the PC campaign was:
1) The PC leader said "An election is no time to discuss important issues"
2) The PC's ran ads with closeups of the Liberal leader's deformed face with voice overs saying "This doesn't look like a Prime Minister" and "I would be ashamed if this man was my Prime Minister"

But unlike in Canada, that wouldn't give UKIP (m)any seats and so they wouldn't be anywhere near in challenging the Tories.

[Leftbehind]

Very happy to hear that the Labour Party will no longer be whipping MPs to vote in favour of Gay Marriage. Apparently 3 shadow cabinet members threatened to resign if the vote was whipped!

I can't believe they've banned CoE/W churches from performing them; what a sham piece of legislature. It's the AV vote all over again.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Very happy to hear that the Labour Party will no longer be whipping MPs to vote in favour of Gay Marriage. Apparently 3 shadow cabinet members threatened to resign if the vote was whipped!

...oh Christ. This could turn into a disaster.

I can't believe they've banned CoE/W churches from performing them; what a sham piece of legislature. It's the AV vote all over again.

Yeah, that's entirely redundant as well as stupid.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Trying to wonder which ShadCab members might actually have quit over this and no one comes to mind (i.e. Burnham is a Catholic, but I seem to remember him being in favour during the leadership campaign). Can think of a couple of shadow frontbenchers who might have though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...oh Christ. This could turn into a disaster.

Think it's more that the leadership would rather not obligate the very, very well regarded Stephen Timms to resign from the front bench than an indication of anything significantly more widespread.

[Hifly]

Can think of a couple of shadow frontbenchers who might have though.

Which ones did you have in mind?

[YL]

The Office for National Statistics has a set of interactive census maps on its website, done by local authority (I'm waiting for the ward figures) quintile (which of course means places with extreme values don't stand out).

Are the Welsh language figures surprising?  The last census suggested the corner might have been turned.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not really, didn't it show continued declines in places where its spoken day-to-day? Anyway, I suspect the figures for the Llŷn might be genuinely upsetting.

[YL]

Here are the percentages with "one or more skills in Welsh" by local authority, for ages 3 to 15, 16 to 64, and 65 and over respectively.  (I calculated these from raw numbers on the ONS website.) Sorted by the 3 to 15 figure, mostly to annoy the English Democrats.

Gwynedd 95%, 72%, 65%
Ceredigion 87%, 53%, 55%
Ynys Môn 86%, 70%, 57%
Carmarthenshire 69%, 55%, 61%
Conwy 59%, 39%, 30%
Denbighshire 54%, 33%, 30%
Powys 51%, 25%, 22%
Pembrokeshire 50%, 24%, 21%
Monmouthshire 47%, 9%, 6%
Torfaen 45%, 9%, 4%
Newport 44%, 8%, 4%
Flintshire 42%, 17%, 15%
Caerphilly 41%, 12%, 7%
Neath-Port Talbot 39%, 20%, 29%
Blaenau Gwent 39%, 8%, 4%
Rhondda-Cynon-Taf 38%, 16%, 15%
Wrexham 37%, 18%, 20%
Vale of Glamorgan 37%, 13%, 10%
Cardiff 35%, 14%, 9%
Bridgend 33%, 14%, 16%
Swansea 32%, 15%, 23%
Merthyr Tydfil 30%, 12%, 12%

[You kip if you want to...]

Trying to wonder which ShadCab members might actually have quit over this and no one comes to mind (i.e. Burnham is a Catholic, but I seem to remember him being in favour during the leadership campaign). Can think of a couple of shadow frontbenchers who might have though.

Khan, being a Muslim?

And i'm so glad the LibDems have been such a liberal influence on the government. Truly disgusting behaviour from Tory MPs in the house. I was genuinely gobsmacked by how they were treating Nick Herbert when I saw ITN tonight.

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/11/ukip-david-cameron-gay-marriage

UKIP aren't homophobic at all and a lovely touch there from the Member for Wellingborough who compared gay marriage to Stalinist Russia.

[k-onmmunist]

didn't peter bone (aka sven goran eriksson) compare the nhs to stalinism?

this country has pretty much become america with a monarchy. so in other words, the worst thing ever.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

this country has pretty much become america with a monarchy.

No, not at all.

[afleitch]

I think this final collective hissy fit will be the death knell for 'gay panic' politics in the UK so I will enjoy it for the spectacle that it is. The draft bill is being published in Scotland today. The SNP are keen to be first through the door with this.

[Franzl]

I think this final collective hissy fit will be the death knell for 'gay panic' politics in the UK so I will enjoy it for the spectacle that it is. The draft bill is being published in Scotland today. The SNP are keen to be first through the door with this.

When will the vote take place?

[DC Al Fine]

this country has pretty much become america with a monarchy.

No, not at all.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/shortcuts/2012/dec/11/david-davies-tory-tornado-homophobic

[minionofmidas]

I think most parents would prefer their children not to be gay, knowing most parents want grandchildren if nothing else. And usually think gays have it harder growing up. And usually are not gay themselves.