Socialism vs. Capitalism

[opebo]

France (Mixed Economy)
Attlee (Socialist)

I would like something in between France and Attlee... leaning towards Attlee when necessary, and leaning toward France when 'things are going well'.

Anyway I voted Mixed Economy, but I probably should have voted Socialist.  I just want there to be, small, individually owned restaurants.

[opebo]

I think a useful distinction between 'regulated capitalist economy' and 'mixed economy' can be made:

Regulated capitalist economy could be thought of as one in which there is virtually no State ownership of industry, even utilites and transport, but in which there is meticulous well-enforced regulation in place for the stability of markets, and the protection of workers and consumers.  I do not think that anything in the title 'regulated capitalist economy' implies a social saftey net, but I suppose it would be reasonable to guess that any society which was so careful in its embrace of the brute suitor 'capitalism' would also try to ensure some very minimal safety net.  However, this net would be a reluctant and parsimonious one, due to the generally 'pro-capital' mindset evidenced by the overall system.

To contrast 'Mixed Economy' I think one would envision it this way - the State not only regulates the activities and limits the powers of the capitalist class in the above way, but also engages in fairly large scale ownership and operation of industries which would be considered almost by definition 'private' in the above system.  Of course most utilities and transport would be directly State operated in a 'mixed economy', but also many 'vital industries' such as heavy industry or minerals exploitation.  Lastly one could assume that 'troubled' industries - for example large companies like GM - would inevitably be nationalized, at least for a time, under such a system, regardless of their field.  Finally I think we can assume that such a pragmatic system would have adopted a somewhat Benthamite outlook and would probably see the 'Welfare State' as not so much a humanitarian necessity, but a sort of reasonable demand or right of the toiling classes.  So we could infer a somewhat more generous and less tenuous social safety net than in the above sytem (regulated capitalism).

Lastly I suppose one must try to make a distinction between Mixed Economy and Socialism - maybe not so hard.  In the mixed economy 'socialist' undertakings are not shied from, but they are utilized by the State only in part and only when it is really necessary.  'The market' and the capitalist heirarchy are still in place and utilized, but in the same way.  I think in socialism we would see a resistance to allowing more than a token amount of such brutality - the socialist would want to eliminate this inequality in principle, even if it were impractical to do so.  I think in 'mixed economy' lots of large industries would still be privately owned - i.e. controlled by a privileged class - though with some limitation on their purview of power.  By contrast 'private ownership' would only be tolerated in small business in a socialist system.

[opebo]

I dare you to give one example. I would argue not only that no 100% unregulated capitalist states have existed, but also that none (that I'm aware of anyway) come even close enough to be accurately labelled as such.

Oh come on - utter chaos has often ruled in many parts of the world.

[opebo]

... the present form of European/US socialism...

Wait a minute.... are you saying there is at present a form of "socialism" in the US or Europe? Where is this thing, it seems to have vanished all together?

Have you not noticed in his years of posting, Al, that Sam Spade is one of those crazy right-wingers who think that any slight window-dressing of the capitalist process is 'socialism'.  The man's a kneejerk nutter.

[opebo]

As an aside to Opebo, I'm not just ignoring you for the usual reasons but in this case because you were unusually non-cognitive in your post.

You aren't ignoring me, you are insulting me, you simpering Swede.  Try to be man enough to own up to it.

[opebo]

"simpering Swede"? Whatever happened to prude?

They sometimes simper, like you.  Christ man, I've used many an insult upon this forum, not just 'prude'.

[opebo]

SS you're making a mountain out of a molehill - at least in the US the 'social saftey net' is both very negligable and mostly gone already.  Its really just a window dressing - but a quite transparent one.  To beat a dead horse: rose coloured glasses.