Pacific Council: Great Reform Amendment: Voting on an Amendment.

[President Tyrion]

it takes 2 out of three councilors to pass anything, period. Shouldn't a veto override be unanimous?

It is required to be unanimous.

"vote exceeding 2/3 the number of Councillors"

[President Tyrion]

I'd like to bring this to a vote, seeing as I find nothing flawed in this yet.

I'm not quite ready for that yet. We should debate it for a good long while to avoid the issues of the Third Pac Constitution.

[President Tyrion]

We probably need to re-number the Bill of Rights in order to include the clause about suspension of Habeas Corpus. I don't think that's meant to be an extension on the ban on slavery.

I'd also like to see the Justice approve of the impeachment of a Governor, and I'd like to see a process for impeachment of a Justice.

[President Tyrion]

I agree that the capital should remain San Francisco.

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

1) I think that we can add a statement saying that the Council can legislate the meaning of "poor behavior" to the extent that it is consistent with the tone of the existing text. If that means 5 votes and you're out, so be it.

2) Banning smoking in apartment buildings should be left up to the landowner, and restaurants to the owner/proprietor. Banning smoking in public places as a blanket is a little dangerous, but we can make a more complicated rule banning smoking within x distance of a non-smoker, or something.

3) Is absentee voting really necessary?

4) Agreed. Perhaps we could widen the breadth of the current clause 13 of the Bill of Rights, like the US Constitution did, so as not to disparage other unstated rights held by the citizens.

5) The right to hold an abortion is important, and we actually included it in the original text. However, we need to be really careful about it, and it may be better served to be an amendment due to how complicated the issue is. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

[President Tyrion]

I agree that the capital should remain San Francisco.

I also think we should add an amendment when a councillor misses five votes, they are automatically recalled.

We should make it so people cannot smoke in public spaces and in restaurants and apartment buildings.

We should add absentee voting for regional elections.

We need to also add that consenting, adult, Pacificans can marry another consenting, adult, Pacifican.

We need to add that a woman is guaranteed a right to have an abortion.

1) I think that we can add a statement saying that the Council can legislate the meaning of "poor behavior" to the extent that it is consistent with the tone of the existing text. If that means 5 votes and you're out, so be it.

2) Banning smoking in apartment buildings should be left up to the landowner, and restaurants to the owner/proprietor. Banning smoking in public places as a blanket is a little dangerous, but we can make a more complicated rule banning smoking within x distance of a non-smoker, or something.

3) Is absentee voting really necessary?

4) Agreed. Perhaps we could widen the breadth of the current clause 13 of the Bill of Rights, like the US Constitution did, so as not to disparage other unstated rights held by the citizens.

5) The right to hold an abortion is important, and we actually included it in the original text. However, we need to be really careful about it, and it may be better served to be an amendment due to how complicated the issue is. I'd like to hear some opinions on it.

3. I think absentee voting will increase voter turnout in the Pacific and let all to have a voice, whether they have internet the election weekend or not.

I mean, I'm fine with the idea in principle, but it strikes me as a logistical nightmare. Election administration (candidate declaration, writing the ballot) would need to be completed a lot earlier to allow for absentee ballots to be filed.

[President Tyrion]

For the record, I'm going to grab sponsorship of this since Oakvale is gone doing better things in higher places.

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For the record, since we have no real rules governing amendments, I suggest we act like all the other legislatures in this great nation and characterize amendments as either friendly or hostile, where hostile amendments (or friendly amendments which receive an objection from a third party) are put to a vote. In this case, amendment is hostile. I believe that we should curtail the ability of people to just randomly move into the region and claim an office immediately. We should hold a vote on this immediately.

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Amendment is friendly, and the other 4 Councilors have 24 hours to object.

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Amendment is friendly. 24 hours, etc.

[President Tyrion]

For the record, I'm going to grab sponsorship of this since Oakvale is gone doing better things in higher places.

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For the record, since we have no real rules governing amendments, I suggest we act like all the other legislatures in this great nation and characterize amendments as either friendly or hostile, where hostile amendments (or friendly amendments which receive an objection from a third party) are put to a vote. In this case, amendment is hostile. I believe that we should curtail the ability of people to just randomly move into the region and claim an office immediately. We should hold a vote on this immediately.

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Amendment is friendly, and the other 4 Councilors have 24 hours to object.

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Amendment is friendly. 24 hours, etc.

My problem with this is when I first registered back in May,  a constitutional amendment failed in the region that would have passed if my vote had been valid. I don't really see how that is fair towards new members. Additionally, the Census Bureau's rule about registration regulations does regulate carpetbagging. The NMAM did get away with it, but they were effective because the region was dead before they got here.

Well, I'll let the Council decide. I don't feel entirely too strongly either way, but I can see the argument for both sides, and I'd tend to side with the barrier to entry.

I just noticed that there is nothing here in case of a gubernatorial vacancy. We should probably do something about that considering that we're about to have one. I won't introduce any amendments until I hear some opinions from Councillors. 

Yes. I'd suggest a special election of some sort.

[President Tyrion]

I have a bunch of amendments. Let's call PJ's amendments 1, 2, and 3, respectively, so I'll start with #4, just for clarity.

This first one is just renumbering.

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Next, an amendment to the impeachment process that will allow the Council to determine the reasoning for impeaching another Councillor (so they can legislate the 5 votes and you're out rule if they so desire).

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Next, an addition to the bill of rights concerning marriage. It'll go in at #16, moving #16 and #17 down to 17 and 18.  

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This amendment will slot in at #19, then.

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Y'all have 24 hours to object.

[President Tyrion]

For the record, non-sponsors can object to amendments that originate with the sponsor, but only the sponsor can find something friendly or hostile.

[President Tyrion]

For the record, non-sponsors can object to amendments that originate with the sponsor, but only the sponsor can find something friendly or hostile.

Well now that Oakvale's gone, who's the sponsor?

I took sponsorship upthread.

You need to open a vote on Amendment:

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[President Tyrion]

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Here is the current text of the constitution, now.

[President Tyrion]

Here's an amendment:

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[President Tyrion]

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[President Tyrion]

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[President Tyrion]

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Amendments 8-11 are originated by the sponsor, so Councillors have 24 hours to object.

[President Tyrion]

Amendment 1, introduced by Politics Junkie, is now at vote.

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Councillors, please vote aye or nay. This vote will be open for 72 hours. Since we have a lot going on in this thread, please write "Vote on Amendment 1" at the top of your post. Thank you.

[President Tyrion]

Oakvale, if you're there, could you change the title to reflect a current vote on an amendment (Amendment 1)?

Meanwhile, my 4 amendments have passed without objection and are now in the text of the constitution.

[President Tyrion]

OK, here's the current text. It's now officially too long to fit in one post. :

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[President Tyrion]

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[President Tyrion]

Alright, what about gubernatorial vacancies? Should we handle them with a special election?

[President Tyrion]

Alright, what about gubernatorial vacancies? Should we handle them with a special election?

What do you mean? That's for the Governor Vacancy Amendment.

That's going into the previous constitution, not this one.

[President Tyrion]

Alright, what about gubernatorial vacancies? Should we handle them with a special election?

What do you mean? That's for the Governor Vacancy Amendment.

That's going into the previous constitution, not this one.

Ah. Well we should definitely add it in if the amendment passes.

That and the abortion amendment, both.

[President Tyrion]

Amendments to Clause 5 and the deletion of Clause 17 of the BoR are friendly. [Amendments 12 and 14]

Maybe we could tighten up the Right to Privacy if you see a specific way in which it could be abused, but I wouldn't want to delete it outright. So I'll say deleting Clause 11 of the Bill of Rights is Hostile. [Amendment 13]

Why are we losing the name "The People's Region of the Pacific"? That amendment is also Hostile, pending your explanation. [Amendment 15]

The amendment to clarify the Speaker's role is friendly. [Amendment 16]

[President Tyrion]

Eh, ok, friendly on both, then. I'm fairly satisfied with that.

Councillors have 24 hours to object to any of Cinci's amendments.

[President Tyrion]

All those amendments already made it into the constitution, although you are of course free to pull them back out. I'll pull together the current text for you guys in the moment.

PJ, you objected to deleting clause 11 of the Bill of Rights. You should hold a vote on that.