The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 06, 2024, 04:34:58 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift  (Read 2089 times)
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,794


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 2.61

« on: August 10, 2012, 11:16:23 PM »

This is about the principle of double effect, isn't it?  - That you can't have the good of protection of disease without the (lesser) bad of the contraception.   

Uh...I don't think that's what that means.
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,794


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 2.61

« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 10:41:23 PM »
« Edited: August 11, 2012, 10:43:02 PM by realisticidealist »

This is about the principle of double effect, isn't it?  - That you can't have the good of protection of disease without the (lesser) bad of the contraception.  

Uh...I don't think that's what that means.
My understanding is that one precondition for double effect is that both effects proceed necessarily from the same action.

Yes, double effect stems from one action having multiple consequences. I guess the only time I've really heard it mentioned was in regards to an ectopic pregnancy. That is, a woman can have her felopian tube containing an embryo (or more) removed to save her life, even though that means that the child dies. This is because saving the mother's life was the only direct and intended effect, the death was an unfortunate secondary effect. Similarly, a Catholic woman can use birth control for necessary medical/hormonal reasons, which may cause a contraceptive effect if she were to have sex, but because this was a secondary effect of the action and not the main purpose of her usage, it would be ok.

That position absolutizes the procreative aspect of sex at the expense of everything else.
Isn't sex within marriage also a positive good in terms of its role in cementing the relationship of husband and wife?

Yes, it is, but God already provides a mechanism for that in that women are only fertile for a very short window every month (~72 hours a month, but the fertile window is longer because sperm can survive about five days in the vagina). The Church teaches that if you want to have sex with your spouse but don't want children at the moment to use that window of infertility (between two to three weeks a month, at the safest), which can be very accurately determined if you're willing to take temperature measurements, etc.
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,794


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 2.61

« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 12:53:15 AM »

However, this does not mean any sex act is licit if it doesn't require artificial contraceptives; it still needs to be the same act (vaginal intercourse between a married man and woman).

TJ, I've never been entirely clear on what the "same act" means. From what I've read, the same act basically means that once sexual activities commence, the husband should make sure to finish during vaginal intercourse to preserve openness to life, but otherwise other forms of stimulation are acceptable prior to this and after this, but I've never asked anyone in person as it's a bit awkward to talk about. It's not something I've personally had to deal with yet of course, though that time may be coming sooner rather than later, so I was wondering if you knew any more about this.
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,794


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 2.61

« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 01:16:26 AM »

However, this does not mean any sex act is licit if it doesn't require artificial contraceptives; it still needs to be the same act (vaginal intercourse between a married man and woman).

TJ, I've never been entirely clear on what the "same act" means. From what I've read, the same act basically means that once sexual activities commence, the husband should make sure to finish during vaginal intercourse to preserve openness to life, but otherwise other forms of stimulation are acceptable prior to this and after this, but I've never asked anyone in person as it's a bit awkward to talk about. It's not something I've personally had to deal with yet of course, though that time may be coming sooner rather than later, so I was wondering if you knew any more about this.

I'm not sure about that one and don't seem to be close to needing to know the answer. Sorry, you'll have to ask someone else that awkward question... Tongue

That's fine. Tongue I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend of almost four years after I find out my grad school situation in the spring (we've talked a lot about it). We'll be taking marriage classes and stuff (engaged encounter, etc.), so hopefully it'll be covered, but I have a weird need to get my mind around everything (in general) and figure out logistics as soon as possible.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 11 queries.